BAD EDUCATION - Potential SPOILERS

[jo]

An interview with director Cory Finley, the creative man behind BAD EDUCATION!

uproxx.com/movies/cory-finley-interview-bad-education-director/

HBO

Director Cory Finley On This Weekend’s Big New Movie, HBO’s ‘Bad Education’

Mike RyanTwitter
Senior Entertainment Writer
April 24, 2020


Seven months ago, Bad Education premiered back at the Toronto Film Festival to great reviews. Now, the thing about a festival like that is its filled to the brim with films jockeying for their Academy Awards position, so it’s tough for a smaller film without distribution to make a splash. But this is a true-life story about a Long Island high school superintendent, Frank Tassone (Hugh Jackman), who embezzles over $2 million from his school district. What makes this compelling is that we kind of like Frank. He seems to care about the school and the kids, but what starts as a free breakfast on the school’s dime becomes more and more until the whole thing comes crashing down.

At the time, director Cory Finley had to reconcile that his film (written by Mike Makowsky, who went to the high school depicted) wouldn’t be shown in theaters. Well, smash cut to now and no one has their films in theaters as everyone is scrambling to figure out what to do. Meanwhile, here’s Bad Education with a plum spot this Saturday night for everyone to see it.

Finley is still in New York City and has been busy supporting his girlfriend, who is a medical worker on the front lines of the pandemic — they are only occasionally seeing each other in person in Central Park at a distance of six feet. So, as Finley says, taking a break to talk about movies is a welcome respite.

How are you doing?

I’ve been saying, it’s a rather dull and lonely existence for all of us, so it’s very nice to have a break and talk movies. Where are you? What city or non-city are you in?

I’m speaking to you from Manhattan.

Oh, excellent, so we’re very close. We’re on the Upper West Side.

I’m in the Upper East Side. We’re right across the park from each other.

No way. That’s wild.


We could have met halfway in Central Park and social distanced ourselves and done this.

Exactly. That’s literally what I’m doing with my girlfriend. She’s a psychiatry resident, but like every resident that’s not in medicine, she’s been pushed into medicine for these next two months as overflow. And the whole point of separating is to try to not spread and keep me healthy in case I need to swoop in and take care of her if she falls ill. But we’ve been meeting in the park. And, yeah, taking it very seriously, wearing masks, walking six feet apart, like sort of virtual hugging

…
So she’s on the front lines?

She is. Yeah, she’s much braver than me. And I’m just trying to order her groceries and keep her happy and well-stocked as she deals with this.


How is Central Park these days? Is it crowded? Is it not? I haven’t been over there.

It’s dismayingly crowded if you believe in social distancing.


Oh, that’s no good.

Especially yesterday. It was a nice day and we had to get out of there, because it was just so full people. And, yeah, I don’t know, maybe we were being paranoid idiots…



I don’t think you are.

Yeah, it’s tough to find a place to safely social distance outside. I think it’s probably safest just to stay indoors.



Here’s the best compliment I can give your movie…

[Laughs] Oh, great.


I saw it back at the Toronto Film Festival in September. I wasn’t assigned to see it, but it fit in-between two other movies. Anyway, I had this insane toothache…

Ooh.


But I liked the movie so much, that instead of leaving to buy a painkiller, I got a cup of ice at concessions and finished the movie.

Oh, God. That’s horrible! Well, I’m really glad you suffered through it and didn’t leave. I guess, in a sense, the movie is trying to give the audience sort of an emotional toothache and worm under your skin in that way.


But if I didn’t like it, I would have been out of there.

Oh, that’s great. I’m a wuss, so I probably would’ve been out of there even if I loved the movie.


The thing I really enjoyed about this movie so much, it’s this low-stakes story about a Long Island school district, but is presented in high stakes…

Exactly.


Because in their world, these are the highest stakes possible.

Yes, exactly. And yeah, our screenwriter, Mike Makowsky, he grew up there, and he grew up in Roslyn. And he was very into really capturing that kind of granular, provincial inter-neighborhood rivalry that happened that he insists is sort of specific to Long Island. It’s kind of like the fall of the king. like a great Greek tragedy. But it also happens to take place in these little boardrooms.




Maybe it’s not hard when you have someone like Hugh Jackman, but as a viewer we like Frank, but dislike what he’s doing. I think that dynamic is important here.

I think it’s so easy to dismiss any kind of caricature. And it’s easy to just dismiss someone that’s just a villain and shitty and does terrible things for totally self-serving reasons. And yeah, I think in lesser hands, he could’ve seemed like sort of just this slick manipulator from frame one. And what I love about Hugh’s performance is how deeply you sense that this guy really is invested in this community and how much he is an educator at heart. It struck me as so interesting that if you have The Wolf of Wall Street, or something, and I love that movie, but the DiCaprio character is this kind of embodiment of greed and obviously went into the Wall Street business and banking because it was a place to make a quick buck above all else. And what was so strange is that Frank took so much money, but got into education. He clearly wasn’t a young, greedy man from the beginning who just wanted to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes and make a ton of money.


Well, that’s an interesting comparison you made, because if someone tells me they watch The Wolf of Wall Street and they’re like, “Yeah, I think that Jordan Belfort guy is a good guy. I really like him,” I’d question their character. But I won’t if someone says Frank is sympathetic. And he has this secret private life that also makes him sympathetic.

I think it’s an important part of his story. And we didn’t want to make anything simple or causal about his private life and his embezzlement, because I don’t think it is, but I think it was important in just understanding the multidimensional man that this guy was and appreciating his character.


Now, take me through your mindset on this, because I’ve been trying to put myself in your situation. This got good reviews out of Toronto. Then HBO buys it, which is great. But as a filmmaker, I’m guessing there’s a part of you disappointed it won’t be in theaters. Now, fast forward to now, you are the only game in town this Saturday night.


Well, yeah, we definitely feel lucky now. It feels sort of gross to celebrate too much, obviously, particularly with my girlfriend heading off and telling me these war stories every day. It feels lurid to be like, “Thank God for the quarantine.” Because there’s nothing positive about it.


Absolutely. But I will add, this movie helps people do their part in staying home and not going out.

Yeah, I hope so. And I think I am a total social media Luddite. I don’t have an Instagram, but I have heard from people that do follow Hugh, for example, that he’s been doing a great job of kind of using this as a further reminder that everyone should be enjoying films at home. But yeah, I mean, the larger thing is I definitely love the theatrical experience. I come from live theater. I was a playwright before movies, and so I will always have a soft spot for theatrical distribution. But I do think this is a movie that hopefully will play particularly well for people at home. Obviously, movies are only playing for people at home right now, and I think just even generally, we’re shifting that way so quickly, and all of the traditional boundaries are falling away. And it’s going to be interesting to watch how this sort of gets into the conversations in the next couple weeks, because I think there’s a lot of exciting stuff that kind of small-screen entertainment can do. And yeah, obviously, HBO has been a leader in that world for a long time and has such a great trusted brand. So, it’s a complicated situation. But definitely right now, I’m glad we’re coming out at home.



‘Bad Education’ premieres this weekend on HBO. You can contact Mike Ryan directly on Twitter.

[jo]

HBO shares this "conversation" --

[jo]

[jo]

[sohmerwood]

Now that there are about 500 HBOs out there, can some one tell me which ones will carry the movie? I’m on a free trial of HBO Go through streaming (no complaints- I’m watching Watchmen), but I’m not sure if Bad Education runs on that channel/app/whatever. I think I saw it on HBO Now - they had the trailer- but that seems to be different subscription. Any guidance as to the HBO on streaming to choose would be appreciated!

[jo]

I had to subscribe to HBO-GO ( here in the Philippines) after HBO dropped the movie from its regular programming. I did it through Apple and will get it on my iPAD. I have tested it and it is on the lineup. Presumably, I am linked to HB0-Asia, incl the operation of HBO-GO. Unfortunately, because of the quarantine situation, local offices which support the subscription requests are not regularly manned and cannot handle specific inquiries.

I can see the trailer and there is a notice that it will premiere on April 26 at 8:00 am (local time vs EDT ). The local cable provider for HBO also told me to subscribe via Apple … although I had already done it on my own initiative after seeing something which said that my iPhone and iPad are configured for the link to HB0-GO. I am (very)low-level techie and have not figured out "casting" - but I am happy enough that I can see the movie ( HOPEFULLY )

Jo

[jo]

[jo]

Likewise, from his Instagram Stories :

[mamaleh]

Who’s ready for a little malfeasance in secondary academia? Can’t wait for tonight! It’s been much too long a drought since THE FRONT RUNNER and MISSING LINK.

Ellen

[jo]

[jo]

[jo]

Arghh... not getting any transmission.

Jo

[jo]

They fixed the technical problem -- now I am getting it

Jo

[carouselkathy]

Just wanted to say that I loved the background choral music in BAD EDUCATION. The end credits revealed that it was a children's choir from the Kodaly Music Academy. Many years ago, I received my Masters in Music Ed. specializing in the Kodaly Method. No wonder i liked the singing!

[mamaleh]

Glad it was resolved, Jo.

Great movie—even if that roof crashing down scene didn’t make the final cut. . HJ and ensemble were excellent. I was especially impressed with how in some scenes, HJ managed to convey the full gamut of emotions with his eyes or facial movements. Beautiful job all around. Kathy, I agree about the music. It really underscored the heightening tension.

Hope awards bodies take notice.

Ellen

[jo]

I wrote my initial comments under BAD EDUCATION : Fan Reviews/Reactions

Will reprint it here.

Apr 25, 2020 21:02:38 GMT -5 jo said:

Having now seen the movie --

What a complex, thought-provoking, unsettling movie! It is also a very well-made movie! I am not sure I can bear to watch it again so soon.

Hugh has just proven what a consummate actor he is!

I have written notes on it -- but will not put them together till later...as I try to consolidate my thoughts. This movie is very unnerving to me, and maybe in my case because of some personal resonance ( will explain that).

It doesn't deserve to simply be a "TV movie", an "HBO Original" -- it deserves so much better! It deserves to have been seen and judged by the OSCAR community! Those ratings, especially by the Top Critics, are so richly deserved!


Jo

[jo]

Loving all the Twitter reactions to the screening -- just added mine

[jo]

Question -- if BAD EDUCATION, by some twist of fate and with film rights owner HBO's agreement, can it be released by WarnerBros in a cinema later in the year, so it can qualify for Oscar awards?

This is a different year... maybe the rules can be modified to make sure talent is recognized, no matter the format.

Jo

[jo]

[jo]

If you've seen the movie - you may want to give it a score on Rotten Tomatoes (Audience Score) --

www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bad_education_2019

[jo]

I don't think we have seen this Variety interview yet - even if some responses from Hugh have already appeared in other interviews. But it is good to read, to give us a better "framing" on how they developed the character study mostly on Frank Tassone.

variety.com/2020/tv/news/hugh-jackman-bad-education-hbo-1234589882/

Home
TV
News
Apr 25, 2020 11:16am PT
From Superhero to Superintendent, Hugh Jackman Explains His ‘Bad Education’ Character

By Kate Aurthur

HBO
In “Bad Education,” which premieres on HBO on April 25, Hugh Jackman plays Frank Tassone, a Roslyn, N.Y., school district superintendent who was a brilliant educator — and also a vain, charming and larcenous criminal. It’s a different type of role for Jackman, one Variety’s chief film critic Peter Debruge described as “a star at the height of his powers leveraging his own appeal to remind that even our heroes are fallible” — and also “the best work he’s ever done.” After premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival in September, “Bad Education” sold to HBO for close to $20 million, making it Jackman’s first major role in a television production since becoming a movie star in 2000 with “X-Men” (if an inadvertent one).

Earlier this month, Jackman spoke to Variety about the making of “Bad Education,” which is based on true events. Jackman discussed creating the character of Frank and promoting a movie during a pandemic.


What drew you to this role?

I was sent the script and I really liked it, but I thought, “This is gonna be tricky.” Because I couldn’t quite work out the tone from reading the script — it felt like three genres in one. And I knew it was a second-time director, Cory Finley, and I was like, “Okay, let me have a look at his first film.” And 20 minutes into “Thoroughbreds,” I was like, “I’m doing this film.” It was three genres in one!

And the role itself was something different from what I’ve done. I liked the idea of someone who is super successful, very, very good at what he did, beloved by the community — and fell down this slippery path. How can someone go from being on a pedestal in a community to being sent to prison? That part I found fascinating.




As you say, Frank is complicated. He’s passionate about education and helping students. At the same time, he has seemingly no problem bilking school funds! Tell me about reconciling those two sides of him.

He was one of the best superintendents. He’d gotten Roslyn High School from nowhere to No. 4 in the country. And he started many programs that are now standard around America. I think he thought of himself as a really positive member of the community, doing really good things. And I have to believe that he was justifying what he was doing. Somehow, the lie built on itself — that’s fascinating to me. I don’t think people go around going, “I’m the villain of this life! I’m the bad guy!” They believe, and they justify — they find a way to justify their actions.

It was vital to him how he was perceived, from his looks — literally his appearance — to how he did his job, to how he was perceived in the press, which was glowing, by the way.



I interviewed Mike Makowsky, the screenwriter, and he said that you had a huge packet of research about Frank. What did you learn about him that you applied to your performance?

I work with Amy Stevens, who’s amazing. She’s a dramaturg researcher. I was referred to her by Anne Hathaway, who used her on “Les Mis.” We ended up using all of her research, and she was just invaluable. We looked into heaps and heaps of books about him, the school, the school system, lying, the psychology of lying, how that can take hold and how people can live with themselves day to day. I learned, obviously, a lot about his background and his history, and a lot about how he was viewed by the public. After he went to prison, people came out with their misgivings about it. But very few, if any, said anything before that.

But clearly there was something about him that people didn’t quite get, or know. And then later, they put it down to, “It was because he was really gay or because he was really stealing.” There was something about him removed from the public, his colleagues, the staff. Very few people really saw the real Frank.


I’m from New York City, and I have to say that your Long Island accent is perfection.

Thank you! I’ve worked with Jess Platt for 20 years, literally from the second movie I ever did. I’ve had several producers when we’re doing the deal and I’m more worried about my dialect coach than anything else being like, “Really? He’s done 30 movies, and he doesn’t know it yet?” I say, “I have Jess there so I can get the subtleties of it, and I don’t have to worry about it.” If I’m thinking about my accent, I’m clearly not acting, you know?


A lot of people get the Long Island accent wrong. How would you describe it?

Frank, of course, spent a lot of time there. But he had a doctorate from Columbia. So we just tried to take the edge off it a little bit, so it didn’t go into too much caricature. I think for Frank, it was important to be one of the people, but also show that he was very educated.



Frank’s personal vanity, as you mentioned, is so intense. What did you want the audience to see in those scenes when you’re readying yourself in the mirror?

It really mattered to him, how he appeared to everybody. And it fed on itself, and got worse and worse, with facelifts and all this stuff that happened. I think it was this pursuit of perfection as a man, an educator, a boss, a liaison to the public. I saw it as part of the mask, part of creating — literally creating — every morning this image of perfection.




You’ve played so many heroes over the course of your career. Even as you’re playing Frank, people want to root for you. It’s what we’re used to doing.

Well, thank you. And if I have any kind of objectivity about how people see me as a human being, I think they probably think I’m a nice guy, like a good guy generally, right? I thought that would be powerful for the story as well. You know, just to help audiences to go in and not necessarily see the ending, so to speak. A slipperiness of truth is there for every single person. People can do the craziest things, and it just starts to feel normal. And you justify it. And so I think both the roles I’ve played, and possibly my own image helped. I thought it was good to play against that.
You played Peter Allen in “The Boy From Oz” on stage, but unless I’m mistaken, you haven’t played a gay man on screen.


What went into making that decision?

Nothing, really. It was another layer to his deception. You have to remember, and I’m not sure if audiences will get it — but 2003 was very different to 2020. I spoke with a lawyer who’s gay and he said, “I definitely didn’t come out in 2003.” So for someone in such a public, front-facing role in a conservative Long Island neighborhood, it was understandable.
But there was more to it than that for him. He’s hiding — and then he was hiding from his partner also. And it just adds to the layers of him creating a version of himself that he thought would be successful. Being a gay man was not part of that. And that’s what was interesting to me.


What did you think about Frank having sex with one of his former students as an adult and getting into a relationship with him?

There’s nothing really implied that he was sort of grooming him at all. We’re not trying to create that narrative because I don’t think that’s the truth. There was something exciting about it for him, I think, just about a young man. We’re not, in the end, trying to paint a picture of an evil human being. We’re more or less trying to find a picture of someone who thinks they’re good and loses their way.


“Bad Education” was the big acquisition title at TIFF this year. What did you think when it sold to HBO?

I was thrilled that it sold. I remember when we were at Toronto, there were a lot of conversations about what’s happening with the theatrical business, particularly for dramas like this. And, you know, I don’t see this as a “Little Miss Sunshine” — like, I didn’t know what the theatrical prospects for it were. And that had really nothing to do with my decision when I took the role, I just thought this is a really interesting, complex story about human nature with a great young filmmaker.

Of course, originally I was thinking this is going to be a theatrical release, and I have only done theatrical releases, thank goodness, since “X-Men.” Trust me, I did some TV before that in Australia. So I was a little taken aback at first. But then I was like, “Oh, I actually think a lot more people will see this in this format.” So in that way, I was excited about it.



Normally, there’d be a huge Emmys campaign around you and the movie, but because of coronavirus, everything is so crazy and awful right now.

It’s not the time to deal with it. It’s really not. There’s just so much more important stuff going on. It’s weird timing. Having said that, you know, I’m at home with my family, and we’re trying to watch really good material. I’m trying to read really good books and listen to good music, and in that way, it’s something I think as actors and artists we can contribute.


Were you working on something that had to shut down?

No, we had just finished. I was working on “Reminiscence” with Lisa Joy from “Westworld,” who is directing her first film. And it is fantastic. We finished January 24. It was an amazing experience with Rebecca Ferguson, Thandie Newton, Lisa and her husband Jonah Nolan, who produced it. That movie’s in the can, but who knows when it’s coming out?


This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

It's obvious the interview was before WarnerBros announced the release date of April 16, 2021 for REMINISCENCE

[jo]

Guess what??!!


Our local HBO ( Philippines) has just announced that it is showing BAD EDUCATION at 10:00 PM here ( 10:00 am EDT)!

Other HBO ( not HBO-GO) but the premium channel itself HBO may be sharing the movie, too. So check out your schedule direct on the TV itself.

Hey, now I don't have to learn " casting" ( screen-mirroring from iPad to TV) anymore to see it on a bigger screen

PS: It comes after a screening of X-Men 2 itself!

Jo

[jo]

[jo]

Cory Finley has just let out a secret!

Having just the movie for the second time, I had some suspicions which arose … because certain things did not jive -- and here is the proof - LOL!


Do read the entire article and I bet we will all gleefully discover the same surprise

tv.avclub.com/cory-finley-on-bad-education-capitalism-and-hugh-jack-1843031267

The A.V. Club

Interview
Cory Finley on Bad Education, capitalism, and Hugh Jackman’s walk of shame

Bad Education's Cory Finley and Ray Romano on teachers who turn to crime

Danette Chavez
Today 8:00AM

Cory Finley
Photo: JoJo Whilden (HBO)


With dark humor and one of Hugh Jackman’s finest onscreen performances, HBO’s Bad Education puts the lie to Horace Mann’s declaration that education is the great equalizer. The film, which premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival last year, is based on the real-life embezzlement scandal that rocked the Roslyn, Long Island school district in 2002. Screenwriter Mike Makowsky, an alum of the Roslyn public school system, and Thoroughbreds director Cory Finley examine the almost symbiotic relationship between property values and school rankings—in which they rise in tandem—and the man, Frank Tassone (Jackman), who came to see himself as arbiter of both.

Jackman plays Frank as a striver who believes his time has come, alternately brimming with genuine pride over his students’ accomplishments and incandescent with rage when their parents try to put him in his place. Even as he funnels school funds into his own deceptively lavish lifestyle, Frank’s dedication and resentment make him sympathetic, even relatable. Finley’s direction presents Frank’s well-meaning and aggrieved sides, resting on Jackman’s profile as he confronts the inquisitive teen (Geraldine Viswanathan) who brings about his undoing. Ahead of Bad Education’s HBO debut, The A.V. Club spoke with Finley about strivers, both in real life and pop culture, Thoroughbreds, and guiding Hugh Jackman through his character’s downfall.




The A.V. Club: The movie mostly takes place in Roslyn, Long Island with occasional detours into Manhattan, where we find out Frank has been leading this double life. The distance between the two places isn’t really that great, geographically speaking, but in the movie, they’re worlds apart. At least, that’s how it looks from my vantage point in Chicago. Was there something in particular you trying to capture about the relationship between these two locations?


Cory Finley: I’m not a native New Yorker myself, but I’ve been living here for almost a decade. I grew up in St. Louis where there’s kind of a similar relationship, but it’s different. Mike Makowsky wrote the screenplay and he’s from Roslyn, so he’s very tuned into those particular dynamics. One of the things I loved about the script when I first read it was how regionally specific it was. There’s lots of little moments that I think have extra resonance for people from the tri-state area—lots of deep background of a rivalry between the suburbs or between the towns of Long Island. I was always operating under this sense, that the more specific we made the movie, the more universal it would feel, paradoxically. So we really leaned into the specific kind of Long Island-ness of it all. And we were lucky to have a highly qualified sort of Long Island consultant on the production in the form of our wonderful screenwriter.



AVC: The story is in part about upward mobility and what it demands, but it’s not just through the lens of the individual. We see that there is kind of a whole ecosystem that’s made up of the schools and town officials and realtors. Property values and school budgets have this directly proportional relationship—it’s as if one side relies on the other.

CF: It’s definitely part of the larger context of the story; it’s one of the themes that I really hope comes across in the movie. The public school system is a really interesting microcosm of American values in general, and it was interesting to kind of explain and talk through some of the peculiarities of American schools with our highly international cast and team. And it was also very funny, by the way, to have a number of days where we had two Australians playing Long Islanders—Geraldine Viswanathan and Hugh [Jackman].

Obviously, one of the ways that the very wealthy pass down wealth generationally is through private education. But even in public schools, because we have this system where funding for public schools comes in part from property taxes, you’ve got this strange cyclical relationship where nicer areas can afford better schools. Then the schools also become a selling point for these areas—particularly in some of the towns around New York City, there’s a real premium placed on the public school system and where you can get your kid into school. I think having all of that in the background of the movie was very important to make it not just a story about clear-cut villains, but about complicated individuals that are all motivated by a thorny tangle of different motivations, and in which, to some degree, the system—the much larger system, that of American capitalism—is the villain more than any one individual.



AVC: The wide angles lend themselves well to this idea of there always being more—another rung to climb up the ladder, another level to reach. I do want to talk about the confrontation between Frank and Rachel, which is shot wide and with the actors in profile for most of the scene. They both remain in the frame with very little cutting back and forth to allow us to see their full expressions. Why did you approach their big showdown that way?

CF: This is a very dialogue-driven script, so I think directing a story where you want to place an emphasis on the words spoken by the characters, it sort of puts the onus on the director to find intentional ways to frame each scene so that it’s not just sort of a long series of conversations that are shot in exactly the same way. And yeah, for that, I always find the profile—not even three quarters, this sort of dead-on or dead-side-on profile is a super confrontational feeling shot. It helped build tension in that scene.



We also did a fair amount of makeup on Hugh. I’ve been gratified in a way to see the response to the trailer, with people talking about how different Hugh looks and thinking it’s just aging. Unfortunately for the rest of us mere mortals, it is makeup. It is not aging. [Laughs.] There were certain angles that we could shoot his made-up face to make him look more “bad,” for lack of a better word; sort of more human as well, and less like a movie star. So even within the course of the film, we wanted the way that we were invited to look at Frank to reflect our changing perceptions of him.




AVC: Hugh is probably best known for playing someone who’s very emotionally closed off, which belies the side of him that’s this dazzling entertainer. What were your discussions like with Hugh, both about the role and how you planned to capture him basically at his worst?

CF: That was one of the things that made him such an appealing choice for this role. I’ve just been a fan of his in general, and I think he can play all kinds of different roles. Among actors working today, he is like a throwback movie star. There’s that kind of song-and-dance element that all the old stars of stage and film used to have. He’s just such a charming and beloved guy. For this story to work through the frame that we wanted, our attitude toward Frank has to change over time–it’s crucial that in the first third or first half of the film, we really genuinely believe that he actually cares about the school, that he actually cares about these kids. That it’s not all just kind of a slick mask that allows him to do his bad embezzlement deeds. I think in lesser hands, Frank could have just seemed really glib and smooth, sort of eerily smooth throughout. But I think Hugh really makes you feel this guy’s humanity and this guy’s warmth and the good goals of this man. So when you start to understand some of the bad things that he’s done and is doing, it makes it all the more tragic.



AVC: Frank really does come across as well-meaning early on—just a good guy who knows everyone’s name and even their parents’ names. I thought the shakes were a great little detail that tell us so much about who this man is. When we think about educators, we think “self-sacrifice.” Frank’s shakes are almost a symbol of what he feels deprived of, especially when we see him presented with fancy chocolates by the realtors. Was that a real-life detail?

CF: [Laughs.] Yeah, one of the things I loved about the script is early on, where he’s offered this golden box of chocolates by this group of grateful real estate agents that you were talking about earlier. I love this visual image of when he’s handed these chocolates. There’s something sort of condescending about it—you’ve made us millions of dollars, here’s a box of chocolates. But he’s also being given this gold-wrapped treat, which he can’t eat because he’s on a diet. He puts it down and gives it to other people. Then his shake is presented to him in this very ominous way. I believe that was a real-life detail; it’s been in the script so long, I would have to double check our sources to make sure we didn’t fabricate that. But choosing to make it this very dark, sinister-looking charcoal smoothie became kind of a fun way to visualize this poison that he has to put into his own body to maintain this perfect front of his glamorous appearance and all of that.



AVC: To your point about condescension and the chocolates, there’s a hilarious, cutting scene toward the end of the film, where Frank is speaking to one of the many mothers who feels entitled to his time. He’s railing about how these well-to-do parents treat the faculty and administration like customer service. He tells her, “You don’t want to see us as people because that’s not convenient for you.” It reminds me of a line from Thoroughbreds, where Mark says to Lily, “We’re all your maids.”

CF: Yeah, exactly. I always think it’s really interesting when you have a character who you’re really tempted to just see them as a garbage human being say something that is painfully truthful and make you reevaluate that. I’ve always felt that people are very complicated and it’s very easy to sort of hate people, whether they’re public figures or just frenemies or whatever. It’s very easy to hate people from a distance, but as soon as he gets to know them and understand sort of what makes them tick, it becomes very hard to just sort of hate people in the simple way that you might be able to from more distance. I think you can still condemn people. You can still disagree with people’s ideology, you could disagree with what they’re trying to do. But I think one of the things that film or literature or sort of any narrative entertainment can do really effectively is force you to hold those contradictory thoughts about a person in your head at the same time.

To some degree, it was understandable because I do think educators in general are wildly under-compensated and under-appreciated in this country.



AVC: There’s another key scene towards the end of the movie: Frank walks into the school the day the article’s out in the school paper. It’s this great, unnerving long take. We saw a similar walk for Allison Janney’s character, Pam Gluckin, early in the film, but it’s nowhere near as long because her fall from grace really isn’t as steep as Frank’s.

CF: Yeah, it’s one of the things that makes the character tragic—you sense that in the act of pulling the wool over other people’s eyes, he was also pulling the wool over his own eyes. He genuinely did seem to believe that the embezzlement was acceptable or that he was sort of owed this money to some degree, that it was within his rights as an administrator. Reading about it, I do think there was an element of that that was sincere. It wasn’t just a cover. To some degree, it was understandable because I do think educators in general are wildly under-compensated and under-appreciated in this country—maybe less so for top superintendents, but nevertheless. So that image was really powerful for me, to imagine that even sort of the final moments before his real downfall, everyone else in the school would somehow be aware of what he’d done before he knew that the news was out. That he’d have all these eyes on him. That even after that downfall, when he’s on the bleachers talking to Ray [Romano]’s character, that he is continuing to just burrow deeper into the self-delusion that what he did was totally acceptable. That made the character very sympathetic to me.


AVC: Bad Education is one of a few recent productions that look at class structure and class transition— what it takes to move back and forth, and how the ruling class will try and keep other people down. In Parasite and the first season of The Deuce, there are literal ascensions—people are always climbing these stairs. Did you decide to set up more of a lateral movement because in some ways, Frank already sees himself as belonging to that upper-class group?
CF: Yeah, the way everyone moves from room to room, it is lateral. I found the fact that a lot of these characters are strivers and weren’t born into privilege really interesting, which made me think a lot about everything from design and aesthetics to casting—really the whole process. Thoroughbreds was all about the corrupting influence of generational wealth, and sort of embedded wealth; WASPs or people that have only known wealth. There’s some of that in Bad Education. That certainly exists in Long Island. But it’s shifting. It’s an upwardly mobile, as you said, place. It’s hardworking, middle-class people that are striving for an upper-class existence. I think in both of the movies, that need for wealth or that sort of ambient presence of wealth is a dangerous, bad thing, but it takes very different forms in those two separate subclasses within the upper class.

Danette Chavez

[jo]

We also did a fair amount of makeup on Hugh. I’ve been gratified in a way to see the response to the trailer, with people talking about how different Hugh looks and thinking it’s just aging. Unfortunately for the rest of us mere mortals, it is makeup. It is not aging. [Laughs.] There were certain angles that we could shoot his made-up face to make him look more “bad,” for lack of a better word; sort of more human as well, and less like a movie star. So even within the course of the film, we wanted the way that we were invited to look at Frank to reflect our changing perceptions of him.

Okay - what made me suspicious that they were uglifying him, for one --

Frank was supposed to have had a face lift, a procedure that pulls back the skin behind the ears by the nape. After the surgery when he was healed, you can see the folds of skin from the back of the ear to the nape.

Several scenes later -- they completely banished. I looked and looked and they were all gone in the remaining scenes!


I had also been wondering why the many "wrinkles" on his forehead were prominent earlier...but during the last parts of the movie, his forehead was not as markedly lined. I thought it might have been just the trick of the lights.


In movies they talk of de-aging... It is rare that an actor allows himself to look older ( and not actually grow older in the movie).

Jo