THE MUSIC MAN 🎵

[jo]

A reply on ATC re the topic of THE MUSIC MAN Theatre --

re: Music Man Theater
Posted by: fosse76 10:08 am EST 12/06/19
In reply to: re: Music Man Theater - kess0078 08:25 pm EST 12/03/19

It's going into the Winter Garden. While they aren't selling every seat (in order to mask the theater), it's very clear that they are selling seats that don't exist in other Shubert-owned theaters. Beetlejuice was already evicted.

The word "evicted" sounds harsh -- but maybe he meant to emphasize that the process of eviction was done with the force of law! That is, the Shubert Organization was within its rights to send a formal notice to the BJuice producers to vacate the Winter Garden within a certain time frame and with the usual arrangements for move-out. It could also very well be that BJuice has found a solution to its dilemma by taking the initiative to reshape the show to fit another/smaller theatre as well as to use it for touring purposes...and maybe the process of eviction was just a formality.

Hope things work out well for all parties concerned.

PS: Hope they don't wait too long to identify the theatre for The Music Man so those who are dilly-dallying to buy tickets because they do not want the uncertainty ( of the lack of a theatre identification) may be encouraged to proceed with their decisions.

Jo

[mamaleh]

As per Broadwayworld.com, BEETLEJUICE is closing June 6. That paves the way for a likely load-in of MUSIC MAN at the Winter Garden in late summer!

www.broadwayworld.com/article/Breaking-BEETLEJUICE-Announces-Closing-Date-National-Tour-Will-Launch-in-2021-20191209

Ellen

[jo]

Yay! The Music Man is now ready to create "trouble" in Winter Garden City

[jo]

The original source of the article ( quoted by BWW) is the New York Times.


www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/theater/beetlejuice-broadway-evicted.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage§ion=Theater

But the article while laying down the facts ( the legalities of the business arrangements) is one-sided - as if The Music Man is the true villain

Theater

Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced Out of Theater
The $21 million musical will be hoping for a new home after the Shubert Organization made way for Hugh Jackman and ‘The Music Man.’


By Michael Paulson
Dec. 9, 2019, 5:00 p.m. ET


“Beetlejuice,” which overcame a sluggish start to become a fan favorite on Broadway, is being evicted from its theater to make room for another musical that promises to be more lucrative.

The Shubert Organization, which is the largest landlord on Broadway, has ordered “Beetlejuice” to vacate the Winter Garden Theater, where its last performance will be on June 6. The musical is being edged out to make way for next fall’s revival of “The Music Man,” a heavily promoted project from the powerful producer Scott Rudin that stars one of Broadway’s most reliable audience draws: Hugh Jackman.


The ouster of a show that is doing well — “Beetlejuice” grossed nearly $1.6 million over Thanksgiving week, setting a record for the Winter Garden — is unusual, reflecting the high demand for limited theater space at a time when Broadway is booming.

“It’s sad and a shame, and also, in its own way, historic,” said Hal Luftig, a “Beetlejuice” co-producer who has been working on Broadway for 30 years. “I don’t think there’s ever been a case when a show has turned itself around in such a fashion and then has to leave its theater.”


It is not clear what will happen next. The producers of “Beetlejuice,” led by the theatrical arm of Warner Bros., are hoping to find another New York theater, but the show’s elaborate set would make such a move expensive. They are also planning a North American tour starting in 2021, and exploring productions in Britain and Australia.

The development is a blow to the show’s investors, who had until now been heartened by the musical’s unexpected (but very on brand) return from death’s door. The show was capitalized for $21 million, and it would be nearly impossible to recoup those costs by June.


“It’s disappointing,” said Mark Kaufman, the executive vice president of Warner Bros. Theater Ventures. “We took the time and we built a hit, and now we’re going to have our life at this theater cut short.”

The stage musical, written by Scott Brown, Anthony King and Eddie Perfect and directed by Alex Timbers, is adapted from the 1988 Warner Bros. release, directed by Tim Burton, about a Goth girl and a pushy poltergeist warring within a haunted house.


In setting a deadline for the musical to leave the theater, the Shubert Organization is invoking a “stop clause” that allows it to oust a show whose grosses fall below an agreed upon level for two weeks in a row.


Invoking such a clause is not unprecedented, but what makes this situation unusual is that although “Beetlejuice” fell below the specified level last May, since then its grosses have rebounded.


The Shubert Organization notified “Beetlejuice” in June — after the Tony Awards — that it had hit the stop clause.


By the time the show rebounded, however, the Winter Garden was already committed to its next tenant: The theater owners had reached an agreement with Rudin that would allow him, more than a year later, to run “The Music Man” there.


The Shuberts sent “Beetlejuice” a formal letter on Oct. 1 informing them that they needed to vacate next spring; “Beetlejuice” is now making its plight public as it puts a final block of tickets on sale.




The announcement will also clear the way for “The Music Man” to announce its plans, which it expects to do next month; until now, the production has taken the unusual step of selling tickets for seats at an unnamed theater, and even on Monday it declined to comment or confirm its venue.


Warner Bros. unsuccessfully broached the idea of a compromise that could satisfy both shows. Among other proposals, the company offered to pay to relocate “To Kill a Mockingbird,” a box office hit also produced by Rudin, from the Shubert Theater to a smaller house, so “The Music Man” could be staged at the Shubert while “Beetlejuice” remained at the Winter Garden.

But the two production teams could not agree on a price tag.

“It’s no secret that the producer of ‘Music Man’ wanted that theater,” Luftig said. “If I had one wish, I wish they could have all sat down to think of a Plan B, because we’re in a precarious situation now.”



The Shubert Organization declined to comment for this article, other than to say: “If an appropriate theater becomes available, we would certainly talk about moving the show.”

“Beetlejuice” has already overcome several obstacles. The show’s 2018 pre-Broadway tryout in Washington was panned by the Washington Post critic Peter Marks. It was revised before opening on Broadway in April, but was greeted in New York with mixed reviews (in The New York Times, an unimpressed Ben Brantley called it “absolutely exhausting”); it was then nominated for eight Tony Awards but won none.


The show brought in $818,904 in its first full week after opening, which was below its stop clause. But, after a boffo and much-viewed performance on the Tony Awards broadcast, it began to rebound midsummer, and has grossed over $1 million most weeks since mid-July.

The show’s advance — the value of tickets sold for future performances — has doubled over the last six months, to $7.6 million, during a period when most see their advances drop. Just last week, the show sold 16,586 advance tickets worth $1.7 million, according to Matt Polk, a spokesman for the production.

In fact, every financial indicator has been pointing up: The advance has risen in 16 of the last 17 weeks; the average ticket price has grown; and group sales are way up, Polk said.



The reversal of fortune has been fueled by strong word of mouth, particularly among first-time theatergoers, and a shift in marketing strategy, which pivoted from emphasizing the show’s irreverence to celebrating its sense of fun.


The “Beetlejuice” cast recording has been streamed 100 million times, and the performers have worked hard to promote the musical, whose opening number, “The Whole ‘Being Dead’ Thing,” has been given lyrics tailored for television appearances, most recently on “The View” and at the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade.

The production has also courted ardent enthusiasts (and repeat attenders) dubbed “Netherlings.” There have been costume contests, and fan art is displayed backstage. And the show is among the first on Broadway to thrive on TikTok, a popular mobile app used to make and share short videos.

“I sit in all these Broadway League meetings where they talk about building a new audience for Broadway,” said an obviously frustrated Kaufman. “Once we started building that audience, it started to take off — we are the textbook definition of word of mouth.”

Kaufman said that, over the next seven months, he would try to sustain the show’s momentum in hopes of keeping it alive. “We’d be foolish to give up,” he said. “You don’t work this hard to not power on.”

New York Times -- let's try hard to get the side of the Shubert Organization and The Music Man!

The closing date on June 6 and subsequent move-out of the Winter Garden paves the way for the rehearsals for the incoming show ( which is reportedly going to start in July).

JO

[jo]

I've always thought that it is just a group of smaller investors backing BJuice -- it turns out that it is another major name in entertainment ( Warner Bros) behind BJuice! So big boys vs big boys! Ironic that the film distributor for Hugh's current film project ( REMINISCENCE) is also Warner Bros


Jo

[jo]

The BJuice announcement should have been made much earlier, as there is a legal basis for the Shubert Organization to invoke the clause...but letting the issue linger in the public minds stay that long created seemingly adverse publicity for The Music Man! Maybe Rudin wanted it resolved quietly so as not to create negative publicity for The Music Man.

However --

www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.php?thread=1120416&dt=24

[jo]

Also, the news/opinions ( all favoring BJuice) has broken ground on Twitter --

twitter.com/search?q=Beetlejuice&src=trend_click


Hope there is counter-publicity for The Music Man soon!!


Jo

[jo]

At least the discussions on the saner and more adult literati set ( All That Chat) at the moment is focusing on the practicality of the move and the history other shows which have moved in the past...and not as a more sophomoric indictment ( as it is on the more juvenile-sounding literati at BWW).

www.talkinbroadway.com/allthatchat_new/d.php?id=2474364

[jo]

The onslaught of negative tweets are now focusing on Hugh Jackman!

Some juveniles and juvenile-minded people are not looking at the facts first!

Btw, I remember seeing Les Misérables for the first time at the Broadway theatre way back in early 1988! Then it moved to the Imperial where it resided for so long and where its later revival was done! No fuss!

Mamma Mia! also moved from the Winter Garden and transferred to another theatre where it stayed also for a long time. Not sure if it still running?

So, what is the fuss --

Is it because the BJuice producers/creatives/actors are fanning the hatred fuss?

Or is it new theatregoers ( the BJuice kind, mostly young people) who are ignorant of Broadway practices and think they can rally something into being changed ( no matter that it is also unfair to the other side).

Hey, I don't understand why Stephanie J Block is supporting that sentiment

Stephanie also once dissed the film adaptation of Les Misérables



Hopefully, all these will blow away -- paving the way for an eventual move-in of The Music Man at the WinterGarden.

Also, hopefully positive publicity will come its way soon!


Jo

[jo]

Hey, guys - the dissing of Hugh and The Music Man is continuing

Can we show some Hugh Jackman support on Twitter. I have never seen so much negativity towards Hugh and his project like this

[jo]

Some people wade in without thinking -- just so they can hear their own voices, as did this Brit PhD tweeted :

[jo]

[jo]

On the BWW message board --

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Jordan Catalano
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Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced Out of Theater


Posted: 12/10/19 at 7:22am
songanddanceman2 said: "Jordan, it has more to do with the fact that Beetlejuice has since turned things around after a lot of hard work. I and many others presumed that the theatre would change for Music Man due to this.

It's a nasty thing to do in my opinion, I don't care how that sounds. This is getting closed for a celebrity cash grab revival, that's what I think sucks. "

Then If the show continues to break those records and the producers see good reason to find a new home for it, then that’s what they’ll look into doing (if they’re not already). It’s hardly the first time a show has had to change theaters but it might be the first time it’s happened to a show with an under 14 following who don’t understand business and take everything as a personal affront to them because they “luv BTJ”.
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My rejoinder --

jo
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Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced Out of Theater


Posted: 12/10/19 at 7:39am


Who is being unfair here??

Per the NYTimes --

"The Shubert Organization notified “Beetlejuice” in June — after the Tony Awards — that it had hit the stop clause. By the time the show rebounded, however, the Winter Garden was already committed to its next tenant: The theater owners had reached an agreement with Rudin that would allow him, more than a year later, to run “The Music Man” there. The Shuberts sent “Beetlejuice” a formal letter on Oct. 1 informing them that they needed to vacate next spring...".

If the Music Man has already reached an agreement with the theatre owners about the use of the Winter Garden, then presumably, the planning and development for the revival ( they had a month-long lab in September) must have already taken the physical attributes of the Winter Garden in its staging considerations. It would not be fair to displace The Music Man production after work may have already planned and possibly accomplished involving the initial development work. They only worked within their contractual rights.

If there is anyone to blame for the position that Beetlejuice has found itself in, it is their producers and creatives who may have overestimated their revenue flows vs their breakeven requirements. Maybe they should have rented more manageable-sized facilities or toned down the extravagant production - less expensive. It's like renting a big house which you cannot afford on your income/cash flows. Ha, then they try to blame others for their own mismanagement! Broadway is commercial theatre, not subsidized art!

[jo]

Looks like some rationality is coming into the discussions --


Here's a BWW post from someone who initially reported the eviction notice before it was reported by NYTimes --

Fosse76
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Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced Out of Theater
#85

Posted: 12/10/19 at 11:26am
I think people are being a bit too quick to assign greediness and blame to Rudin and/or the Shuberts. At the beginning of Mockingbird's run, there were rumblings that the show would eventually move to another theater for Rudin's Music Man revival. However, I had heard in September that it had been determined that the Shubert didn't have the size they needed. Since Beetlejuice had previously met the conditions to enforce the stop clause, and the Winter Garden was the size they needed, they decided to put it there. While a producer can request a specific theater, it's the Shuberts who decide where to put a show. They most likely believe that they will make more money with The Music Man than with Beetlejuice.

My reply and request for confirmation --

jo
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Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced Out of Theater
#87

Posted: 12/10/19 at 11:48am

Fosse76 said: "I think people are being a bit too quick to assign greediness and blame to Rudin and/or the Shuberts. At the beginning of Mockingbird's run, there were rumblings that the show would eventually move to another theater for Rudin's Music Man revival. However, I had heard in September thatit had beendetermined that the Shubert didn't have the size they needed. Since Beetlejuice had previously met the conditions to enforce the stop clause, and the Winter Garden was the size they needed, they decided to put it there. While a producer can request a specific theater, it's the Shuberts who decide where to put a show. Theymost likely believe that they will make more money with The Music Man than with Beetlejuice."

I remember in one of your recent messages that you mentioned Bettlejuice has been evicted from the WG, which has now been substantiated in official reports.

Someone posted on Instagram a photo of the lab work in September that was done by an ensemble related to Music Man, with Rudin, Carlyle and Sutton in the photo with a fairly large group. Could this lab work reported as month-long have been the basis for the decision on choosing WGarden (and not the Shubert) as what would be a more appropriate stage setting for them?

http://instagram.com/p/B3iTZDuprPo

[jo]

Further to the above --

Fosse76
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Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced Out of Theater
#101


Posted: 12/10/19 at 2:33pm
jo said: "Someone posted on Instagram a photo of the lab work in September that was done by an ensemble related to Music Man, with Rudin, Carlyle and Sutton in the photo with a fairly large group. Could this lab work reported as month-long have been the basis for the decision on choosing WGarden (and not the Shubert) as what would be a more appropriate stage setting for them?

http://instagram.com/p/B3iTZDuprPo

"


That sounds about right to me, and it matches the time frame when I had heard that The Music Man was too big for the Shubert.

[jo]

What seems to be the real backstory??

Dolly80
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Posted: 12/11/19 at 12:40am
jo said: "Fosse76 said: "I think people are being a bit too quick to assign greediness and blame to Rudin and/or the Shuberts. At the beginning of Mockingbird's run, there were rumblings that the show would eventually move to another theater for Rudin's Music Man revival. However, I had heard in September thatit had beendetermined that the Shubert didn't have the size they needed. Since Beetlejuice had previously met the conditions to enforce the stop clause, and the Winter Garden was the size they needed, they decided to put it there. While a producer can request a specific theater, it's the Shuberts who decide where to put a show. Theymost likely believe that they will make more money with The Music Man than with Beetlejuice."

I remember in one of your recent messages that you mentioned Bettlejuice has been evicted from the WG, which has now been substantiated in official reports.

Someone posted on Instagram a photo of the lab work in September that was done by an ensemble related to Music Man, with Rudin, Carlyle and Sutton in the photo with a fairly large group. Could this lab work reported as month-long have been the basis for the decision on choosing WGarden (and not the Shubert) as what would be a more appropriate stage setting for them?

http://instagram.com/p/B3iTZDuprPo

"




The Music Man was designed for the WG from day 1. Designs were handed in mid summer so there was no switching of theatres. Rudin wanted the WG.. he got it.


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dramamama611
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Posted: 12/11/19 at 1:05am

Plans submitted in mid summer is already AFTER BJ recd their notice that the owners were invoking their stop clause.
That happened in June.

He got it LEGALLY.

[jo]

Fosse76
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Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced ut of Theater
12/11/19 at 11:07am


Dolly80 said: "jThe Music Man was designed for the WG from day 1. Designs were handed in mid summer so there was no switching of theatres. Rudin wanted the WG.. he got it."

Being designed for the Winter Garden and originally being planned to open at the Winter Garden are two entirely separate things. It may have been designed for the Winter Garden, but it wasn't always planned for it. But nice try.

[jo]

The official Twitter site of Music Man-Broadway has initiated a tweet subject on Hugh!

How about some support tweets, guys


Jo

[jo]

More thoughtful views from the BWW message board --

Mister Matt
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Every producer has to accept that a stop clause may be invoked and a good producer should expect that it WILL be invoked. The common practices of the past are absolutely meaningless because they have nothing to do with the current contract in place. They are merely historical references, not procedural guidance. It doesn't matter if Music Man was "designed for the Winter Garden" or "planned for the Winter Garden" or even that Rudin approached the Winter Garden (approaching a theatre with a current tenant is common). The contract is between the producers of Beetlejuice and the Schuberts and the Schuberts chose to invoke the clause after having given the producers of Beetlejuice proper notice and it's nothing more than a wise business move. It's far more likely that Music Man will be a huge cash cow for the duration of Grant's involvement in the run than Beetlejuice would sustain profitability (much less recoup) after the holidays. I agree with magictodo123. Blaming Music Man for the eviction of Beetlejuice is senseless. I feel like those that believe this somehow taints the production of Music Man are just those who already took offense to it for whatever personal reason they feel justifies their hostility towards the show. I'm still hoping I get a chance to see it.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
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n2nbaby
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Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced ut of Theater
#134

Posted: 12/11/19 at 5:39pm
These Beetlejuice stans are honestly the worst.

I saw and enjoyed Beetlejuice and genuinely believe that Alex Brightman should have won the Tony last year. It’s a crappy situation and I feel for the cast and crew for sure.

But good lord, these kids are all over Twitter saying that The Music Man is going to bomb, won’t last eight months, etc. They clearly have no idea how Broadway works or how to look at a seating chart.

[jo]

BJuice fans are becoming belligerent in their insistence to sustain the life of Beetlejuice at the Winter Garden ( See post above) -- but did they know that their lead star was at some point already talking to producers to star in a biopic of John Belushi. Discussions for a lead role do not take only a few hours...maybe not even a few days?

The casting has now been confirmed.

collider.com/john-belushi-biopic-alex-brightman-david-frankel/

He must have known then beforehand that the show was put on stop-clause notice in June and then formally given a notice of eviction on October 1 to have proceeded with plans to leave the show even if it continues perhaps at a different theatre? I wonder if the Beetle-nuts knew of this -- that the lead they were fighting for in the musical they were ready to set aside logic for was going to abandon the show at some point anyway?

And quite a startling coincidence that the timing of the film project casting news came within 2-3 days of the NYTImes article and the show's official press release that they are staying at the WG only up to June


Jo

[mamaleh]

These tweeting twits have no clue about the business side of Broadway or the legal ramifications involving the "stop" clause. They should pick up Mitch Weiss's book, "The Business of Broadway," or simply do some research online. Ah, the know-nothing-but-so-sure younger generation.

Ellen

[jo]

To quote George Bernard Shaw --

"Youth is such a wonderful time... what a crime to waste it on the young!"


If they bothered to learn their Broadway history - here is some food for thought :


variety.com/2013/legit/news/broadways-mamma-mia-to-move-to-broadhurst-theater-1200386612/

Broadway’s ‘Mamma Mia!’ to Move to Broadhurst Theater
Twelve-year-old production will exit the Winter Garden for a smaller venue
By Gordon Cox

Gordon Cox
Theater Editor
@gcoxvariety


Longrunning Broadway tuner “Mamma Mia!” will shift from the Winter Garden Theater, its home of the last 12 years, to the Broadhurst Theater later this year.

At 1,182 seats, the Broadhurst — currently housing the limited run of Tom Hanks starrer “Lucky Guy,” which recently extended to July 3 — is smaller than the 1,498-seat Winter Garden by about 315 seats. The downsizing rebalances the equation for a stalwart title that is still a big seller in tourist-heavy frames, but in other weeks is less in demand than it was earlier in its lifespan.

Shifting theaters from a larger venue to a smaller one, in response to lessened demand for tickets, is often a component in a Broadway musical’s extended life. The 17-year-old “Chicago,” for instance, opened at the Richard Rodgers (1,380 seats) in 1996, upscaled at the height of its popularity to the Shubert (1,428 seats) and then in 2003 moved to the Ambassador (1,120 seats), where it’s been running ever since. “The Lion King,” which opened at the 1,800-seat New Amsterdam in 1997, moved to its current home, the 1,700 seat Minskoff, in 2006.

Longrunning Broadway tuner “Mamma Mia!” will shift from the Winter Garden Theater, its home of the last 12 years, to the Broadhurst Theater later this year.

At 1,182 seats, the Broadhurst — currently housing the limited run of Tom Hanks starrer “Lucky Guy,” which recently extended to July 3 — is smaller than the 1,498-seat Winter Garden by about 315 seats. The downsizing rebalances the equation for a stalwart title that is still a big seller in tourist-heavy frames, but in other weeks is less in demand than it was earlier in its lifespan.


Shifting theaters from a larger venue to a smaller one, in response to lessened demand for tickets, is often a component in a Broadway musical’s extended life. The 17-year-old “Chicago,” for instance, opened at the Richard Rodgers (1,380 seats) in 1996, upscaled at the height of its popularity to the Shubert (1,428 seats) and then in 2003 moved to the Ambassador (1,120 seats), where it’s been running ever since. “The Lion King,” which opened at the 1,800-seat New Amsterdam in 1997, moved to its current home, the 1,700 seat Minskoff, in 2006.


The “Mamma Mia!” move will leave the Winter Garden, one of the Rialto’s prime musical houses, up for grabs for the first time in a long while. Prior to “Mamma Mia!,” which opened there in 2001, the theater was occupied by the 18-year run of “Cats.”

[luzie]

These young clueless tweeting nuts are one side, but even more annoying is that some (Broadway) media, "writer", Broadway ... people, who actually ought to know better, join in and tweet any ridiculous garbage to Hugh. And one "smart" brain has opened a "parody" Scott Rudin account and tweets any dumb, oh so "funny" bullcrap. 

[jo]

Dec 13, 2019 12:16:45 GMT -5 luzie said:

These young clueless tweeting nuts are one side, but even more annoying is that some (Broadway) media, "writer", Broadway ... people, who actually ought to know better, join in and tweet any ridiculous garbage to Hugh. And one "smart" brain has opened a "parody" Scott Rudin account and tweets any dumb, oh so "funny" bullcrap. 

Click-bait from a supposed social media influencer

The real theatre fans no longer talk about it - BWW discussion has now been put away beyond the "first 50 topics" page. ATC was very adult in its attitude - the people there are real theatre fans and did not think anything of the stop-clause/eviction because they know Broadway history and economics. It seems it is the unclued who are harping on the issue - but it has also waned on Twitter ( first, by the deluge of tweets re Hugh & Ryan's buddy feud). I guess they do not realize that their online behavior has also alienated some people who otherwise may have also planned to see BJuice

[jo]

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