Post by jo on Sept 22, 2016 23:07:42 GMT -5
It looks like there is a new trend about using music in movies to entertain once again. But are movie musicals what they really seem to be?
We know that Tom Hooper used live-singing in LES MISERABLES ( with the exception that of the singing during the opening scene where the sound of the ocean spray battled with the sound of the singing of the convicts -- the water spray won...and Hooper decided to do a studio recording which was incorporated into that scene).
But what about other new or relatively new musicals?
Here is an interesting opening post on BWW --
www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.php?thread=1096125&dt=5
Dodge3
Swing
joined:9/22/16
Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS#1
Posted: 9/22/16 at 11:44pm
I follow BWW daily, but I was moved to register tonight for one particular reason. I have been waiting for more than a year for the savvy ladies and gentlemen on this board to pick up on something. As it hasn't been picked up on, I wanted to open the discussion to see what people think. Sorry in advance for the length of the post, but there's a lot involved here. Rob Marshall made much ado about posting the vocal credits in the final scroll of CHICAGO so audiences would know that all of the actors sang for themselves. He did the same with NINE. When I attended an industry preview of INTO THE WOODS at the Director's Guild in New York, about two months before the film was officially released to theaters, I sat with a great friend of mine, a musical director for TV who has spent most of his life under headphones. Together we were poised for discovery, because I am a Hollywood dubbing historian with a good ear, and his ear is unparalleled from years of scrutinizing sound and its screen components. So. During "Stay With Me," I felt that unexpected little trigger I get when dubbing is afoot. Without being able to rewind and rewatch, I just let it sit. An hour or so later comes "Last Midnight." My inner dubbing meter activated again. At this point, I was curious to see if Marshall would post his traditional vocal credits at the end, but being a rough cut, shown for the purpose of drubbing up Oscar interest, the credits were not yet finalized for viewing. When the lights came up, in verbal shorthand, I turned to my friend and quizzically said, "Streep." And he, with his ear always one step ahead of mine, replied, "Donna Murphy."
Since then, we have both made a study of it, going so far as to loop Murphy's Central Park rendition on top of the movie soundtrack, which offers identical inflections. Listen to the film version again; it's one of the most sophisticated, amazing dubbing jobs we'll ever hear. In "Stay With Me," Streep gets as far as "Stay at home..." and Murphy quietly enters on "I am home..." The vibrato shift is welcome and unmistakable, such a relief musically and so beautifully mixed that you'd never suspect it. Then Murphy takes glorious flight into the bridge, until Streep returns on "stay with me..." A less sophisticated tech team would have transitioned to the new voice on "Who out there could love you more than I?" — it was a genius stroke to switch out the voices on the quieter, more subtle line before. Murphy sings most of "Last Midnight," too, though in this song, the interchange of voices is more frequent, and far more difficult to delineate — as intricately plotted as the constantly shifting dual track that merged Deborah Kerr's speech and Marni Nixon's singing for Anna's soliloquy in THE KING AND I (deleted from the film, but mesmerizing to hear on the soundtrack album).
I think there are two reasons no one has caught wind of the Streep dubbing in INTO THE WOODS. First, Meryl has sung off-and-on for years on stage and screen, and we, by this point, assume she can do anything — because she usually does; her Florence Foster Jenkins vocals are skilled beyond explanation. Another reason is the movie's brilliantly rendered pitch correction, which masks the familiar, slightly off-key nasality we have come to identify with — and love about — Murphy.
Here's the topper, though: Check out Streep's "Last Midnight" on YouTube. At the 1:34 mark in the song, in the line "You can tend the garden, it's yours," listen closely. It's Bernadette Peters, right off the original cast album, or live in the studio as a cameo gag, who knows — but that is definitely Peters singing the two-word phrase "it's yours." So give a listen and let the discussion begin. To be clear, this is coming from someone who loves the whole smoke-and-mirrors art of dubbing, so the revelation is meant not as a "spoiler" but with affection and a tip of the hat to the artistry with which it was done. As a postscript, however, months after that initial preview, when we saw the finished film at the Ziegfeld, the now-completed roll gave full singing credit to Streep. It was like a taste of old Hollywood, when Vera-Ellen, Rita Hayworth and Jeanne Crain all shared the same dubber in Anita Ellis and no one knew it! As the credits rolled, my friend turned to me in the dark and said, referring to Murphy, "I hope she got paid a bundle for it."
A lot of discussions, pro and con, ensue
Jo
We know that Tom Hooper used live-singing in LES MISERABLES ( with the exception that of the singing during the opening scene where the sound of the ocean spray battled with the sound of the singing of the convicts -- the water spray won...and Hooper decided to do a studio recording which was incorporated into that scene).
But what about other new or relatively new musicals?
Here is an interesting opening post on BWW --
www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.php?thread=1096125&dt=5
Dodge3
Swing
joined:9/22/16
Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS#1
Posted: 9/22/16 at 11:44pm
I follow BWW daily, but I was moved to register tonight for one particular reason. I have been waiting for more than a year for the savvy ladies and gentlemen on this board to pick up on something. As it hasn't been picked up on, I wanted to open the discussion to see what people think. Sorry in advance for the length of the post, but there's a lot involved here. Rob Marshall made much ado about posting the vocal credits in the final scroll of CHICAGO so audiences would know that all of the actors sang for themselves. He did the same with NINE. When I attended an industry preview of INTO THE WOODS at the Director's Guild in New York, about two months before the film was officially released to theaters, I sat with a great friend of mine, a musical director for TV who has spent most of his life under headphones. Together we were poised for discovery, because I am a Hollywood dubbing historian with a good ear, and his ear is unparalleled from years of scrutinizing sound and its screen components. So. During "Stay With Me," I felt that unexpected little trigger I get when dubbing is afoot. Without being able to rewind and rewatch, I just let it sit. An hour or so later comes "Last Midnight." My inner dubbing meter activated again. At this point, I was curious to see if Marshall would post his traditional vocal credits at the end, but being a rough cut, shown for the purpose of drubbing up Oscar interest, the credits were not yet finalized for viewing. When the lights came up, in verbal shorthand, I turned to my friend and quizzically said, "Streep." And he, with his ear always one step ahead of mine, replied, "Donna Murphy."
Since then, we have both made a study of it, going so far as to loop Murphy's Central Park rendition on top of the movie soundtrack, which offers identical inflections. Listen to the film version again; it's one of the most sophisticated, amazing dubbing jobs we'll ever hear. In "Stay With Me," Streep gets as far as "Stay at home..." and Murphy quietly enters on "I am home..." The vibrato shift is welcome and unmistakable, such a relief musically and so beautifully mixed that you'd never suspect it. Then Murphy takes glorious flight into the bridge, until Streep returns on "stay with me..." A less sophisticated tech team would have transitioned to the new voice on "Who out there could love you more than I?" — it was a genius stroke to switch out the voices on the quieter, more subtle line before. Murphy sings most of "Last Midnight," too, though in this song, the interchange of voices is more frequent, and far more difficult to delineate — as intricately plotted as the constantly shifting dual track that merged Deborah Kerr's speech and Marni Nixon's singing for Anna's soliloquy in THE KING AND I (deleted from the film, but mesmerizing to hear on the soundtrack album).
I think there are two reasons no one has caught wind of the Streep dubbing in INTO THE WOODS. First, Meryl has sung off-and-on for years on stage and screen, and we, by this point, assume she can do anything — because she usually does; her Florence Foster Jenkins vocals are skilled beyond explanation. Another reason is the movie's brilliantly rendered pitch correction, which masks the familiar, slightly off-key nasality we have come to identify with — and love about — Murphy.
Here's the topper, though: Check out Streep's "Last Midnight" on YouTube. At the 1:34 mark in the song, in the line "You can tend the garden, it's yours," listen closely. It's Bernadette Peters, right off the original cast album, or live in the studio as a cameo gag, who knows — but that is definitely Peters singing the two-word phrase "it's yours." So give a listen and let the discussion begin. To be clear, this is coming from someone who loves the whole smoke-and-mirrors art of dubbing, so the revelation is meant not as a "spoiler" but with affection and a tip of the hat to the artistry with which it was done. As a postscript, however, months after that initial preview, when we saw the finished film at the Ziegfeld, the now-completed roll gave full singing credit to Streep. It was like a taste of old Hollywood, when Vera-Ellen, Rita Hayworth and Jeanne Crain all shared the same dubber in Anita Ellis and no one knew it! As the credits rolled, my friend turned to me in the dark and said, referring to Murphy, "I hope she got paid a bundle for it."
A lot of discussions, pro and con, ensue
Jo
