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Post by jo on Jul 1, 2017 21:47:29 GMT -5
Many Wolverine fans are of course a little sad ...or outright disappointed : "Is this what you left WOLVERINE for??" Some of course have tried to link LOGAN/WOLVERINE to BARNUM/SHOWMAN -- "MUTANT ROUGE!" But it is truly ironic and not even intentional that a joyous movie musical ( THE GREATEST SHOWMAN) would follow the release of Hugh Jackman's most admired ( but dark) Wolverine portrayal in LOGAN. It just happened that way! I thought an action/adventure movie to follow LOGAN would have been an easier transition for the most devoted fanboys/fangirls! Or if it had to be a musical, maybe the most logical would have been LES MISERABLES ( as it is dramatic and heroic)? But in a sense the 180-degree turn was providential! It is now telling the whole world that Hugh Jackman is arguably the most versatile actor on film and on stage! LES MISERABLES gave us his dramatic acting talent combined with his singing ability in a muscular portrayal of a famous hero from literature and the performing stage. However, it was not a complete showcase of his triple threat versatility! Sing! Dance! Act!I am hoping that THE GREATEST SHOWMAN is not just the title of a movie about P.T.Barnum but a true description of the actor/performer portraying him! Hear! hear! AMPAS!!! Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 2, 2017 10:40:29 GMT -5
This reviewer saw the last performance of the Ringling Bros, Barnum and Bailey Circus -- could his reaction to the trailer be less than happy at all
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Post by jo on Jul 2, 2017 19:00:59 GMT -5
There's been some proliferation on YouTube of THIS IS ME, with Keala ( extracted from the trailer), and the truncated version with Hugh in Sydney has been getting some online love ( I posted it on BWW). But if you want to see ( again) the full version by Hugh in Brisbane, you can fast forward to approx. 42'00" on this bootleg recording of the concert - sorry for the bad audio ( it gets a little better when Hugh starts singing), but it's great to hear another version. I have a feeling this song is going to be a big popular hit! Or maybe even a candidate for awards honors Jo
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Post by carouselkathy on Jul 2, 2017 19:43:20 GMT -5
What year was this show in Brisbane?
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Post by jo on Jul 2, 2017 19:54:45 GMT -5
It was in December 2015.
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Post by jo on Jul 2, 2017 20:09:20 GMT -5
Some confusion about the movie being a musical! The actors ( except for a brief glimpse of Keala, and a tiny glimpse of Hugh, both singing the final line of THIS IS ME) were not seen singing at all. Some did note the rooftop dancing by Hugh and Michelle. And a few noted ( it seems many missed the last frame) the message on the last frame saying that original songs were written by the Oscar winning lyricists of LA LA LAND) -- why they did not even mention the names of PASEK AND PAUL is beyond me *rolleyes*. You have the current Oscar and Tony songwriting winners... and you don't even want to publicize their names ??!! LOL -- why are they not explicit about the movie being a musical? Because some people ( likely male audiences who favor superhero stuff) do not like movie musicals -- but maybe the name of HUGH JACKMAN can bring them to the theatre thinking this is a prequel to ORIGINS:WOLVERINE or a sequel to THE PRESTIGE They had the same approach to the film adaptation SWEENEY TODD - highlight the drama rather than the music. Les Miserables was too well-known to hide its musical identity, but they had Anne Hathaway singing I DREAMED A DREAM in the very first teaser. But even that was meant to highlight the plight of her character Fantine, which was more in aid of saying this is DRAMA/DRAMA/DRAMA! For someone not familiar with THE GREATEST SHOWMAN ( and there were quite a few reviewers who admitted to that) -- the trailer came out as a family-friendly film with a positive and optimistic theme, with strong music in the background -- no outright scenes showing even Hugh singing a song! And from what I hear -- he has quite a few numbers Do you think this conventional Hollywood marketing strategy for musicals trailers served the purpose ( hide the fact that it is a musical...and let the movie unfold as to its true nature once people are inside the cinema )?? Jo
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Post by mamaleh on Jul 2, 2017 22:23:55 GMT -5
I'm thinking a second trailer may give a few more hints that it's a musical by showing snippets of musical numbers. Just my supposition.
Ellen
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Post by jo on Jul 2, 2017 22:41:59 GMT -5
Moi aussi , Mme Ellen Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 2, 2017 22:57:37 GMT -5
I found this refreshing post ( maybe from someone who could be a real circus performer himself or just someone who has been enthralled by the circus) among the approx. 8750 comments on Hugh's Facebook Page re the trailer of THE GREATEST SHOWMAN ( over 4.1 million views to-date) --
Jo
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Post by mamaleh on Jul 3, 2017 0:35:09 GMT -5
How poetic.
Ellen
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Post by jo on Jul 3, 2017 19:42:45 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Jul 3, 2017 20:13:38 GMT -5
It does look like that Hugh did not have a naïve view of Barnum's life story. Although he acknowledged that the American self-belief in "imagination, talent and hard work", as keys to success, was a lesson that could be taken from Barnum's example.
Also, maybe what inspired Hugh more to do the biopic is also his strong fascination with show business ... and how it got its early beginnings!
Hugh is after all a creature of the theatre ( which was one of the oldest forms of entertainment)!
Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 3, 2017 20:31:49 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Jul 3, 2017 20:59:26 GMT -5
Will the kids have the same fascination for this movie? FOX seems to be making sure this movie is family-friendly, meaning it is really for the kids and the kids-in-us...for the lovers of musicals... and maybe even for the supposed cinema buffs who feel celebratory during the holiday season Fie ( love this old-fashioned word to diss something) on the naysayers!! LOL!Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 3, 2017 22:08:05 GMT -5
I saw a Reddit page on reactions to the trailer -- same dichotomy of opinions ( many, of course, trashing the character supposedly of the real Barnum) -- but this is one bit that is informative about working on the set --
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Post by jo on Jul 4, 2017 3:10:01 GMT -5
That message from the trailer seems to resonate very strongly with everyone!
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Post by jo on Jul 4, 2017 3:34:20 GMT -5
Note an interesting detail --
If you freeze the Screen Credits page from the trailer :
"HUGH JACKMAN" is above the title!
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Post by jo on Jul 5, 2017 7:50:36 GMT -5
Estimated Trailer Views a week after trailer release ( Jun 28) Facebook - Greatest Showman - 6.6 million Facebook - Hugh Jackman Page ( TGS trailer) - 4.1 million YouTube ( Official Fox upload) - 5,252.7 YouTube ( Other uploads with more than 5000 views each -- 3,019 Approx total ( Does not include small-count views/other unidentified sources) -- 19 million . How many of those were you guilty of creating the stats Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 5, 2017 8:22:09 GMT -5
At CineEurope --
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Post by jo on Jul 5, 2017 20:24:58 GMT -5
Michael Gracey compared THE GREATEST SHOWMAN on a conceptual basis to three top movie musicals in the past -- *Sound of Music ( 1965) -- Oscar Best Picture *West Side Story ( 1961) -- Oscar Best Picture *Mary Poppins (1964) -- Oscar nominee for Best Picture ( Oscar won by My Fair Lady) If Critics Choices exert a strong influence on audience tastes and choices - let me summarize what can be gathered from ROTTEN TOMATOES -- SOUND OF MUSIC --www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sound_of_music/Overall summary of ratings -- 86% Top Critics summary of ratings -- 57% Audience Like summary rating -- 91% (You can read the various critical ratings from the link/derived links) WEST SIDE STORYwww.rottentomatoes.com/m/west_side_storyOverall ratings -- 94% Top critics -- 90% Audience Like rating -- 84% MARY POPPINSwww.rottentomatoes.com/m/mary_poppinsOverall rating -- 100% Top Critics -- 100% Audience Like rating -- 86% As part of his cinematic vision conceptualization and execution, presumably, Michael Gracey must have studied the individual movies and what the critics said for those three movies as part of his guidance and inspiration? Of course we haven't seen the movie...but it would be interesting to see how these movies ( of which 2 won Best Picture Oscars - nominated Mary Poppins lost to another musical, My Fair Lady, for Best Picture) did really inspire THE GREATEST SHOWMAN! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_PictureJo
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Post by jo on Jul 5, 2017 20:43:09 GMT -5
Btw, I posted an article on the issue OF Franchise Fatigue under the topic UNDERSTANDING THE FILM BUSINESS ( under the general section for MOVIES) -- but there is some discussion on the growing influence of ratings aggregators such as Rotten Tomatoes --
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Post by jo on Jul 5, 2017 23:11:51 GMT -5
In comparison, here are the ratings summary for the more recent movie musicals. For more insights, the box office results ( worldwide/domestic/foreign) are also identified for each movie --
*Beauty and the Beast (2017)
Overall rating summary - 71% Top Critics - 69% Audience Like summary -82%
Worldwide(WW) box office - $ 1,259.7 million (M) Domestic box office - $ 503.9 Foreign box office - $ 755.8
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*La La Land (2016)
Overall rating - 92% Top critics - 96% Audience Like - 82%
WW box office - $ 443.9 M Domestic - $ 151.1 M Foreign - $ 292.8 M
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*Into the Woods ( 2014)
Overall rating - 71% Top Critics - 86% Audience Like - 49%
WW Box Office - $ 213.1 M Domestic - $ 128.0 M Foreign - $ 85.1 M
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*Jersey Boys (2014)
Overall rating - 52% Top critics - 57% Audience Like - 62%
WW box office - $ 67.7 M Domestic - $ 47.1 M Foreign - $ 20.6 M
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*Les Miserables ( 2012)
Overall rating - 69% Top Critics - 57% Audience Like - 79%
WW box office - $ 441.8 M Domestic - $ 148.8 M Foreign - $ 293.0 M
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*Nine ( 2009)
Overall rating - 38% Top Critics - 30% Audience Like - 37%
WW box office - $ 54.0 M Domestic - $ 19.7 M Foreign - $ 34.3 M
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*Mamma Mia! ( 2008)
Overall rating - 54% Top Critics - 44% Audience Like - 66%
WW box office - $ 609.8 M Domestic - $ 144.1 M Foreign - $ 465.7 M
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*Sweeney Todd ( 2007)
Overall rating - 86% Top Critics - 88% Audience Like - 81%
WW box office - $ 152.5 M Domestic - $ 52.9 M Foreign - $ 99.6 M
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*Hairspray ( 2007)
Overall rating - 91% Top critics - 96% Audience Like -84%
WW box office - $ 202.5 M Domestic - $ 118.9 M Foreign - $ 83.7 M
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*Dreamgirls ( 2006)
Overall Rating - 78% Top Critics - 84% Audience Like - 71%
WW box office - $ 154.9 M Domestic - $ 103.3 M Foreign - $ 51.6 M
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*Phantom of the Opera (2005)
Overall rating - 32% Top Critics - 26% Audience Like - 84%
WW box office - $ 141.0 M Domestic - $ 51.3 M Foreign - $ 103.4 M
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*Chicago (2002)
Overall Rating - 86% Top Critics - 88% Audience Like - 83%
WW box office - $ 306.8 M Domestic - $ 170.7 M Foreign - $ 136.1 M
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*Moulin Rouge ( 2001)
Overall Rating - 76% Top Critics- 65% Audience Like - 89%
WW box office - $ 179.2 M Domestic - $ 57.4 M Foreign - $ 121.8 M
Note : Moulin Rouge is generally conceded as having re-awakened the moribund movie musicals genre!
But years earlier than Moulin Rouge was this isolated movie musical, based on an Andrew Lloyd Webber stage musical.
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*Evita (1996)
Overall Rating - 62% Top Critics - 57% Audience Like - 68%
WW box office - $ 141.0 M Domestic - $ 50.0 M Foreign - $ 91.o M
Jo
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Post by mamaleh on Jul 6, 2017 8:20:27 GMT -5
I'd never heard of Flixster; will have to look into it. So franchise fatigue is a thing, pretty much unless an aggregate scoring index (such as the above or Rotten Tomatoes) gives a movie high marks? Interesting. I recently caught CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR and found it largely uninteresting. Yet it scored very high on RT--and made a huge amount of $$ worldwide. I guess I would not make a particularly perspicacious critic. Ellen
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Post by jo on Jul 6, 2017 9:49:52 GMT -5
I think critics try to appreciate the film quality now in the context of popular culture preferences ( what is entertaining and how well made it was in view of that perspective). There are not too many films made ( especially by the big 6 major studios) which are way outside the blockbuster classification. Not much big dramatic movies that studios used to produce. Indies are left to their subsidiaries or to independent filmmakers who have to find their own funding. So, critics now generally compare how one tentpole compares with another, hence you have the better quality tentpoles and the not-so-great tentpoles. Maybe Civil War falls under the first category?
That was why LOGAN was such a breath of fresh air -- it went against the genre conventions and was strong in its cinematic vision and execution ( including outstanding acting performances).
Maybe we are not the market for these blockbusters in general. We tend to compare current generation film preferences to film classics that we had seen...and current movies suffer from our mixed-generational perspective?
But maybe movie musicals have been ratings-discriminated against in general? Maybe they are stricter with them than other more popular genres? But if you look from the onset of great filmmaking, musicals come and go and experience periods of appreciation and dismissal? Also, the current generation may not be in tune ( pun intended) with film musicals because they have blockbusters ( and little indies) to pre-occupy them ...or they prefer their musicals ala Hamilton ( contemporary beat with a historical storyline) or ala Evan Hansen ( dealing with current generation's emotional angst) and maybe that also explains the success of WICKED? They want to listen and watch their own stories with the kind of music they appreciate.
So, why did BEAUTY AND THE BEAST become the first musical billionaire?? Earlier than that -- it was MAMMA MIA! which was the top grosser movie musical!
Maybe we can discuss that when we try to correlate the various factors that can make or break movie musicals?
Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 6, 2017 10:32:59 GMT -5
Can we take a look at various factors that have defined past movie musicals's successes and failures? Is there predictive value in looking at how past musicals have performed with critics and audiences alike...and how can we relate them with the potential success of forthcoming musicals?
Can these factors be the important ones to consider --
*Film quality -- could be manifested via critics ratings and audience word-of-mouth. Can we consider a film that is very entertaining, even if the storyline and characterizations are not topnotch, be considered as Excellent... or should that be a separate measure? Is Oscar success the measure of ultimate success? What about material that is too high-brow and probably not a good candidate for movies ( sometimes the material works only on stage or as piece of literature)?
*Music appeal - because they are musicals, the musical score can be an important factor especially if they have had a previous life as popular hits! Or the musical score hits the right notes with the audiences? Even the incongruous mixing of period piece storyline vs music of a different period happens can work ( in the theatre, material like Hamilton). In the case of movies, people cite Moulin Rouge.
*Awards vibe -- not necessarily leading to actual awarding of honors -- but the fact that it is part of the talk of the town during awards season and even post-awards season may draw audiences in.
*Brand name or brand recognition -- could be a major novel/book or piece of literature/could be a previous stage musical/ could be a musicalized film adaptation of previous movie/could be a remake of a previous movie musical?
*Star Power -- the cast and their reputation relating to the genre, especially as triple-threat talents / sometimes having a perceived outstanding reputation for acting or box office draw may be good enough/or being pop culture stars may even be enough. Do creatives reputations also work?
*Audience preference vs Critics Reviews -- there are examples that this dichotomy can work strongly in favor or not in favor of the movie musical. Sometimes highly-rated but high-brow material may turn away audiences...or can work also the other way. And is there a further dichotomy between generations among the audience that can favor or not favor certain type of musicals?
Are there other factors which could be analyzed?
Can analyze the movie musicals in the previous chart of ratings/box office in terms of these factors?
Jo
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