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Post by carouselkathy on Jul 6, 2017 15:42:20 GMT -5
There is a lot to consider about what will appeal to audiences. The upcoming MARY POPPINS, for example, has a lot going for it. It should have a built in audience because of a multi-generational fondness for the original. Julie Andrews has expressed praise for Emily Blunt. Lin Manuel Miranda is in it. Critical reaction is hard to predict these days.
THE GREATEST SHOWMAN has an all-star cast led by Hugh Jackman, Oscar and Tony winners Pasek and Paul wrote the score, and the trailer is mesmerizing. These all seem like good omens. Critics seem cynical these days. Will that be a factor? Does Rotten Tomatoes have too much influence? Will the perception of mistreatment of animals in circuses be a factor? I was glad to see that the trailer focused on human performers rather than animal acts. It is an amazing trailer. Lots of possibilities and lots of questions.
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Post by jo on Jul 6, 2017 18:28:39 GMT -5
I forgot above the drawing power of our cast. I only counted the Hugh Jackman Facebook Page views in my earlier reckoning of 19 million. And how about Zendaya's appeal on social media?
Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 6, 2017 19:26:40 GMT -5
Let me go back to the chart of past musicals and see how they may have succeeded versus the key factors for success --
*Film Quality -- indicated by ratings/Oscar success
La La Land - 92% at Rotten Tomatoes (RT)/various Oscar wins/nominations
Hairspray - 91% at RT
Chicago - 86% at RT/Oscar Win for Best Picture and various nominations ( including Best Adapted Screenplay for Bill Condon)
Sweeney Todd - 86% at RT/NO Best Picture nomination/Best Actor ( Depp) nomination
Dreamgirls - 78% at RT / NO Best Picture nomination but most Oscar nominations for that year
Moulin Rouge - 76% at RT/Oscar nomination for Best Picture/Best Actress nomination for Kidman/ 2 Oscar wins ( Art direction/costume design)
Beauty and the Beast (2017) - 71% but well below the original animated version (1991) with a 93% rating at RT.
Into the Woods - 71% at RT
Les Miserables - 69% at RT but Oscar nomination for Best Picture/Best Actor (Jackman) nomination/Best Supporting Actress Win (Hathaway)
*Brand Name --
Beauty and the Beast -- the original animated movie was big hit ($ 425 M in 1991) and a rating of 93% at RT and 92% Audience Like/ it was one of 5 Oscar nominees for Best Picture/it was a successful stage musical on Broadway and London...and even on other world stages (it was even Hugh Jackman's first stage appearance)
Les Miserables -- famous literary work/hugely successful as a stage musical in London and Broadway and many parts of the world/there were a few non-musical film adaptations/successful across demos ( many young women identified with the character of Eponine)/originated in Paris.
Mamma Mia! -- successful jukebox musical in London and on Broadway. ABBA songs sold the stage musical.
Phantom of the Opera -- Broadway's longest running current musical/Originated in London and with a very successful run/ non-musical film adaptations/some success of original book in French.
Dreamgirls -- successful stage musical
Sweeney Todd -- not so sure if its musical theatre strong reputation worked well for the film, as it was highly publicized more as a dramatic thriller with Johnny Depp and not as a musical.
*Star Power--
Beauty and the Beast ( Emma Watson is part of the hugely successful Harry Potter franchise).
Les Miserables ( Jackman/Crowe/Hathaway were the big stellar draws/ Tom Hooper was an Oscar winner as a director ( King Speech)
Sweeney Todd ( Johnny Depp)
Chicago (Renee Z/Richard G/Queen Latifah)
Hairspray - (Travolta esp from Grease/Efron esp from High School Musical)
Dreamgirls ( Beyoncé/Jamie Foxx/Eddie Murphy)
Where it did NOT work --
Nine - DDLewis and many other star casting ( Nicole Kidman, Marion Cotillard/Sophia Loren/Judi Dench/Penelope Cruz, etc) ...quite a number of Oscar winners ( Lewis, Kidman, Cotillard, Loren, Cruz, Dench). What went wrong -- too highbrow ??
Jersey Boys - Clint Eastwood was the director but his cast was unknown. What went wrong - Clint chose the stage cast...and did not take advantage of the popular appeal of the Four Seasons songbook...but went for drama.
*Musical Score --
Beauty and the Beast -- its animated film origin gave audiences one of the most popular musical scores ever. Its titular song won an Oscar for Best Song
Mamma Mia! -- ABBA songs are pop culture immense hits!
Les Miserables -- popular anniversary concert events and recordings/ countless cast recordings worldwide/ some songs have become favorite audition songs (Stars/On My Own)
Phantom of the Opera - numerous cast recordings
La La Land -- Oscar win for Best Song (Pasek & Paul as lyricists)
*Audience going against ratings
Beauty and the Beast ( rating was only 71% but it became a film juggernaut - highest Box Office worldwide for 2017, up to June)
Phantom of the Opera ( maybe the factor of brand recognition worked in foreign audiences)
Mamma Mia! ( feel-good factor and music score outweighed the RT rating)
Novelty Factor --
Moulin Rouge - unusual film treatment/juxtaposition of images and modern music
La La Land - rom-com musical, which is rare in this generation's type of movie musicals.
Hairspray - a male actor portraying a female role/ an atypical lead persona ( not the usual type of beauty) for the top role. Did these factors work for the movie, or did it lessen the box office appeal?
Negative Factors --
Nine was too highbrow and well-suited for the stage. It was actually based on a classic film by auteur Federico Fellini ( called "8 1/2" ).
Phantom of the Opera suffered from an unknown cast then ( although Gerald Butler/ Emmy Rossum/Patrick Wilson found success later on)
Musical format -- was the sung-through format rejected by movie audiences ( Les Miserables and Phantom of the Opera)?
Director's choices -- Rob Marshall's Chicago was an Oscar Best Picture but did NINE suffer from his direction? Tom Hooper won Best Picture/Best Director for King's Speech but his directorial choices for Les Miserables were controversial ( the cinematography choices/live singing approach). Baz Luhrmann impressed with his unusual style in Moulin Rouge but the same style did not enhance his reputation for succeeding films - is his film musical considered a good template?
What are your thoughts?
Jo
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Post by carouselkathy on Jul 6, 2017 22:33:27 GMT -5
That's a lot of data! I agree with your opinions about the successful and not so successful choices made in these films. Tom Hooper has a definite style which has proved successful in THE KING'S SPEECH and the JOHN ADAMS mini-series. It was worth a try in LES MISERABLES, and may be more appreciated as time goes by.
Right now, audiences seem to be more amenable to popular style music, as in LA LA LAND. We've only heard one BARNUM song. I had a positive reaction to the modern sound in a period story (HAMILTON ring a bell?) BARNUM is getting a positive intro so far. It's written by Pasek and Paul and stars Hugh Jackman and other pop culture stars. Who knows how the public will receive it?
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Post by jo on Jul 6, 2017 23:05:02 GMT -5
Thanks, Kathy, for your insights.
What would be interesting is to see a survey of movie musical preferences of cross-generational audiences. But I would be most interested in the success story of BEAUTY AND THE BEAST (both in 1991 and in 2017) -- did both films, which are 26 years apart, exert a very strong appeal across demos?
It's a fairy tale story ( enhances the feel-good feeling with happy endings). It has a very memorable musical score. It has strong character portrayals. I have heard cross-generational opinions ( 16 year old/female and over 70-year old/male) sing praises for it. The only negativity I have seen online is the casting of Emma Watson but only in some quarters. Bill Condon did demonstrate that he can adapt and direct a box-office champion! But what caused the relatively middling critical rating of the live-action adaptation ( 71%) versus the universal praise for the animated version ( 93%)?
Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 6, 2017 23:19:15 GMT -5
Posted earlier are the critical ratings ( via RT) of the three movie inspirations for THE GREATEST SHOWMAN--
I checked the box office performance of the three musicals in the 1960's which inspired Michael Gracey -- to see any correlation and to find out how the various success factors worked in favor or against these movies.
Because the time period is way back, only DOMESTIC box office figures are available from Box Office Mojo.
*Sound of Music - Oscar Best Picture winner
USA box office - $ 158.7 million
Production budget - $ 8.2 million
*Mary Poppins - Oscar Best Picture nominee ( winner was My Fair Lady)
USA box office - $ 102.3 million (My Fair Lady Domestic box office was $ 72 million)
Production budget - not available
*West Side Story - Oscar Best Picture winner
USA box office - $ 43.7 million
Production budget - $ 6 million
So, it looks like the BEST winning formula belonged to THE SOUND OF MUSIC!
*Family-friendly movie, with some dramatic highlights towards the end
*Biopic of the Von Trapps ( but Maria may have been portrayed in a kinder light, especially coupled with the popularity of Julie Andrews then)
*Beautiful musical score by Rodgers & Hammerstein ( arguably, the lead/most popular composers on Broadway at that time).
*Beautiful scenery/some outstanding musical production numbers/
*Romantic tension
*Period piece musical ( set at the onset of World War II). Ideological conflict was the substance of the drama in the movie.
*Strong casting of leads and some of the supporting cast.
*Julie Andrews was the actual singer for the movie! No dubbing unlike for Audrey Hepburn ( MFL) and Natalie Wood ( WSS)
*One of the most memorable and remarkable Opening Scenes in ANY movie!
On the critical side - it looks like it is the overall ratings ( not the Top Critic ratings ) and the Audience-Like factor (best at 91%) which were strong indicators of why SOUND OF MUSIC was the most popular movie of the 3 films mentioned.
Jo
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Post by carouselkathy on Jul 6, 2017 23:47:20 GMT -5
Jo,
I think the higher rating for the animated BEAUTY AND THE BEAST was because it was the first animated Broadway Musical. (Compare the opening scene to a similar opening in Reuben Mamoulian's LOVE ME TONIGHT with Maurice Chevalier. Music by Rodgers and Hart). The animation itself was a game changer in innovative technology. We have the animated characters in our heads, so the live action needed to surpass the original version. It was well done and well received, but I don't think it surpassed the animated version. The live TV version of THE SOUND OF MUSIC did not do well (except for Audra) because everyone compared it to the 1965 film. It's often a tough call. It's always important to try new things, but very difficult to compete with a classic that's ingrained in people's memories.
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Post by jo on Jul 6, 2017 23:57:22 GMT -5
It was the other way around for Beauty and the Beast.
The animated film version was released in 1991.
The stage adaptation of the movie musical opened on Broadway in 1994.
But I guess the stage adaptation enhanced the popularity of the animated film even more, because of the "live" performance factor!
Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 7, 2017 0:04:50 GMT -5
Looking at acting honors -- *It looks like that the AMPAS is less generous with acting honors for BEST ACTOR in musicals. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_ActorPost-war, the only winners were Yul Brynner ( KING AND I) and Rex Harrison (MY FAIR LADY). Pre WW II, James Cagney won for YANKEE DOODLE DANDY. Not sure if GOING MY WAY is considered a movie musical - Bing Crosby won an Oscar for it in 1944. Gene Kelly and Howard Keel never won an Oscar for their movie musicals work. Jamie Foxx won for RAY ( biopic of Ray Charles) but I am not sure if that is classified as a movie musical (or a biopic drama with music). Nominations were given to Hugh Jackman ( Les Miserables) and Johnny Depp ( Sweeney Todd). *There have been more leading lady Oscar winners for movie musicals en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_ActressJulie Andrews ( MARY POPPINS; she did get a nomination for SOUND OF MUSIC) Barbra Streisand ( FUNNY GIRL) Liza Minelli ( CABARET) Emma Stone (La La Land) Not sure how to classify Marion Cotillard ( LA VIE EN ROSE - is it a movie musical or a biopic with music) Jo |
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Post by carouselkathy on Jul 7, 2017 10:19:45 GMT -5
It wasn't for acting, but didn't Gene Kelly win a special Oscar for his work on AN AMERICAN IN PARIS?
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Post by carouselkathy on Jul 7, 2017 10:35:42 GMT -5
As for THE GREATEST SHOWMAN, it's hard to know how it will be received by AMPAS. All we've seen is the amazing trailer. It will probably get Golden Globe recognition. Will Hugh's amazing performance in LOGAN be a factor, or will they split votes? (not quite sure how that works). Will he be recognized for his signature role or for his amazing musical talent? I'll be shocked if he doesn't receive a nomination at all. Positive thoughts everyone!
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Post by jo on Jul 7, 2017 11:08:13 GMT -5
The producers of Beauty and the Beast have already stated that they will mount a strong campaign at least for the Golden Globes Best Musical/Coomedy category. So, maybe a Golden Globes win for SHOWMAN is not a sure thing?
Re Gene Kelly -- per Wikipedia :
Jo
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Post by carouselkathy on Jul 7, 2017 11:57:22 GMT -5
Thanks, Jo. I knew Gene Kelly won for something around the time of AN AMERICAN IN PARIS. Since we haven't yet seen THE GREATEST SHOWMAN, there's no way to tell if it's competition for BEAUTY AND THE BEAST. However, don't you think that Hugh will probably be a strong Golden Globe contender for LOGAN or SHOWMAN?
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Post by jo on Jul 7, 2017 12:11:33 GMT -5
For both! LOGAN for the Drama Category  GREATEST SHOWMAN for the Musical/Comedy Category No rule at the Golden Globes that says that he cannot be nominated in two categories  Lol - wishful thinking  |
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 19:55:49 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 20:33:35 GMT -5
I posted this following the CinemaCon presentation in March --
In this and in two set visit reports, there are conflicting reports on who was the studio head referred to. It was Jim who started with the project but it was Snider who eventually gave it the greenlight. Maybe Hugh did not really mention the specific name ( only the "Fox studio chief") but the set visit reporters presumed it to be Jim G. At that time, Jim G's departure from FOX had already been announced.
Btw, my source told me that Stacey Snider was definitely at the last reading in NYC ( February 2016). I am not sure if Jim G was still around.
Jo
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 20:43:17 GMT -5
One of the earliest workshops ( maybe the first) which was mentioned in the above interview with Hugh -- preprod.instagram.com/p/BSTYpFIhwfP/?taken-by=kealasettleIt looks like this was one of several workshops! Hugh is almost bald -- so this must be right after he wrapped filming for PAN ( sometime in June 2014?). Keala, Aaron Tveit, and Sutton Foster were in the group. Jo |
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 20:50:35 GMT -5
This was the final reading ( where the FOX execs were present) in February 2016 ( a day after one of Hugh's skin cancer surgeries) --  Keala was still there. But other Broadway actors ( no more Tveit and Sutton) were there, including Cynthia Erivo, Caroline Bowman, etc) |
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 21:28:38 GMT -5
Hugh posted an Instagram on February 6, 2014! More than three years before the movie was actually filming! http://instagram.com/p/kDDeI9ChJB I didn't even know who Pasek & Paul were at that time |
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 21:43:33 GMT -5
And who would foresee that Hugh and Zac will be starring in a movie musical together, after they performed at the 2009 Oscars together PS: Hugh and another main performer in that Oscars musical number ( Amanda Seyfried) ended up being father and daughter in the film adaptation of the musical LES MISERABLES. |
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 21:48:31 GMT -5
Or that in a movie released ( 2008) before THE GREATEST SHOWMAN was announced as a film project, that the actors who portrayed a sleazy villain and the lover he forced for his attention ...will portray loving husband and wife 9 years later in THE GREATEST SHOWMAN  Hugh Jackman and Michelle Williams in DECEPTION! |
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Post by jo on Jul 8, 2017 22:00:23 GMT -5
It's ComicCon week in San Diego! Long-shot speculation ( by Me!) : Will Fox show the trailer of THE GREATEST SHOWMAN at their presentation...or maybe even an exclusive scene featuring a singing ex-XMan? Or will it all be about the new XMEN movies ( 6 have had release dates announced)...and other stuff ( Kingsman/Planet-Apes/Orient Express and other coming FOX blockbusters)? The fanboys will be shocked ( and groaning ) ...if they do Jo |
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Post by mamaleh on Jul 9, 2017 1:22:46 GMT -5
I hope TGS is indeed featured at ComicCon. If a musical segment is shown, it would be great if it was leaked, however temporarily, online.
Ellen
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Post by jo on Jul 9, 2017 9:15:38 GMT -5
This is the kind of trailer reaction that I would like to see *He looks like a film buff - given the amount of DVD'S on his cabinet. *He knows about Hugh and thinks LOGAN is likely to be considered as a top 5 movie of the year. *But he also knows that Hugh is a musical theatre star ( 2 Tonys) and an Oscar nod for LES MISERABLES. *He read up on the synopsis of THE GREATEST SHOWMAN so he is anticipating the movie correctly. *He had a very positive reaction and was pleased with the casting and the production values. *He thinks it could get a nomination for Best Picture and another for Hugh Jackman. *He thinks that Zac Efron can deliver the dramatic chops ( based on a serious movie that Zac was in) as well as the performer skills ( High School Musical) *He appreciated the positive message that the movie will likely bring. *Finally, he believes this is the right movie for Christmastime! |
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Post by jo on Jul 9, 2017 10:24:37 GMT -5
Mr. Nepales wrote the last-posted set visit report.
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