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Post by jo on Sept 20, 2017 18:11:55 GMT -5
If the movie turns out first rate, maybe the other supporting cast will have similar awards-glory chances? The trailer and Hugh's lauding Keala at CinemaCon has helped to put her in the spotlight. The song THIS IS ME, when released, could even catapult her among popular music choices. We have all been waiting very patiently ( fingers tapping...tapping...tapping  ) for the soundtrack or at least the release of a few songs. We still have to hear Hugh sing! And see him dance! Please -- let the publicity barrage start soon  Jo |
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Post by jo on Sept 22, 2017 8:30:29 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Oct 14, 2017 3:35:52 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Oct 14, 2017 3:52:29 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Oct 14, 2017 4:03:18 GMT -5
On the other hand --
THE SOUND OF MUSIC was crucified by top critics ( 57% for Rotten Tomatoes Top Critic reviews) but did well overall ( 86% overall rating at Rotten Tomatoes)...and went on to win 1965's OSCAR Best Picture!
And I am puzzled --
*Why would FOX openly admit that the movie would only be good for box office glory at this point? Or was that deduced from Fox's goal of putting up a movie that is holiday- and family-friendly. An entertaining movie can also please critics!
*Why were we getting very good reactions from those who actually saw the first and more recent test screenings?
*And why delay the 2nd trailer? The first trailer had an overall satisfaction rate of 97.4 % on the upload of the official trailer on YouTube. Maybe they are working out very carefully that a great message is offered by the second promotional material?
*Not too sure that I would like to believe that they had to offer $ 10 for people to see the test screening. A movie with crowd-pleaser Hugh Jackman in it...and Wolverine/Logan to boot ? Besides, I don't think musicals are complete anathema to film fans -- look at the recent success stories of BEAUTY AND THE BEAST and LA LA LAND!
We'll see...
Jo
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Post by jo on Oct 14, 2017 4:06:42 GMT -5
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Post by mamaleh on Oct 14, 2017 7:41:21 GMT -5
Could this all be part of a plan to lower expectations, then open with a "Wow."? Or perhaps Fox is putting all its eggs in one basket with LOGAN? Either way, or whatever else, Fox's dismissing the likelihood of awards for SHOWMAN is a real head-scratcher.
Ellen
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Post by jo on Oct 14, 2017 7:49:29 GMT -5
They have both LOGAN and WAR- PLANET/APES as their current contenders...with unreleased movies still awaiting any FOX push for awards. Another prospective contender MOUNTAIN BETWEEN US was a critical failure when it was released. Another possibility MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPR4ESS will open in November...Of course there is THE POST ( which is presumed by many as their best best for awards)...and THE GREATEST SHOWMAN, both opening in late December. BTW, THE POST has not released a trailer yet.
But why would a studio say that its movie is not good enough for the Oscars when it has not been released? That only sends the signal that the movie may be disappointing, which could negatively affect the box office! Why not wait for the critical verdict ? You're right, Ellen -- what is being said about Fox openly dismissing a movie ( that others think may have a chance for Oscar glory) does not make sense!
JO
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Post by hughmanity on Oct 15, 2017 6:17:09 GMT -5
I'm trying to come to terms with the idea that TGS may not be the critical or commercial success I had hoped for. This morning I saw that Wells' negative buzz has made its way to a Broadway chat board (Ellen and Jo, I was glad to read your posts there). While I'd like to remain optimistic, I have to admit that this has added to some nagging doubts that I've been trying to ignore. The film's ratings on IMDB AND Rotten tomatoes are lower than they should be at this point before its release. Reshoots after a test screening, while perhaps common,is not a particularly encouraging sign; likewise absence from any film festival. The fact that there were 97% likes on the trailer could be misleading, as the sample who chose to watch it may not be, statistically speaking, an "unbiased" one, but rather a group that already had a proclivity towards musicals, or any of the cast members. The controversy surrounding PT Barnum is also troubling in terms of how it can affect both critics' and audiences' perceptions. I feel sad, but above all I truly hope to be proven wrong. It bothers me greatly that the passion project of a person I hold in such high esteem may not live up to his hope or vision. Although he certainly doesn't need my or anyone else's synpathy, I know personally I will hurt for him. I'm sorry if I've brought anyone down, but am thankful to have this board where expression to people who also admire Hugh helps me to deal with what I'm feeling now.
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Post by jo on Oct 15, 2017 9:35:06 GMT -5
Just some thoughts --
I don't think Hugh ever envisioned THE GREATEST SHOWMAN to be an Oscar contender, especially when the project was first announced in 2009 ( which actually pre-dated Les Miserables, filmed in 2012)! I think what he simply wanted was to be able to do a successful movie musical, given the riskiness of the genre ( he himself has said that if done wrong, it can stink to high heavens) and that not too many of them were being produced, after the period of the Golden Age of Hollywood Musicals, followed by the movies with music from great composers ( Rodgers & Hammerstein; Lerner and Lowe, etc), and then the cycle that was re-started with Moulin Rouge and Chicago. Hugh simply wanted to be able to get the genre reinvigorated with the project.
To some extent, there were changes as the project was kept in the back burner for many years.
One that has kept true is to do a period musical with a contemporary tone to the musical score. How do I know that ? Because as early as 2009, he and his producing partner then from SEED ( J.Palermo) were about to engage the European pop star MIKA to write the musical score.
Of course we know that at the time of the more serious start of the project ( probably at the time Gracey joined in, which was in 2011), a slew of composers ( all from contemporary/pop music world) were engaged to contribute songs to the movie...Eventually, Pasek and Paul won the privilege of becoming the sole composer team! About 2-3 years ago, Hugh posted a photo of himself and co-producer Laurence Mark ( they worked together during the 2009 Oscars show, where Mark was one of the show producers) with several unknown people ( who eventually turned out to be Pasek& Paul, and Michael Gracey) with the notation that they had just recorded their first song -- I was assuming that this was a demo song to be presented to the people who will give the project the greenlight.
While the Fox greenlight had not come, Hugh and Laurence and Gracey were holding workshops as more songs were composed. In an inspired move, partly because he was working on Broadway in The River, the workshop singers came from the Broadway community ( early ones included Sutton Foster, Aaron Tveit, and of course Keala). From what I understand there were a total of 4-5 workshops trying to complete and test the musical score. The final workshop had some Broadway luminaries like Cynthia Erivo, Jeremy Jordan, Caroline Bowman, Keala Settle, Andrew Keenan Bolger, etc. It's good that some of them are going to be part of the movie itself - Keala, Will Swenson, Natalie Weiss, etc.
For that final reading/workshop, the suits from FOX were going to be present to decide on whether the material deserves the much desired GREENLIGHT. Unfortunately, on that day in February, Hugh had to undergo one of his nose cancer surgery procedures and was warned not to sing because that was only a day after the procedure. Jeremy Jordan subbed for him in some of the numbers... but according to the story, for the finale number, as Jeremy started to sing Hugh suddenly stood up and started to sing over Jeremy's voice. That brought the house down!
The greenlight was more or less assured but there were still many things in pre-production that needed to be done : get the budget approved, finalize casting, get the creative aspects of filmmaking designed, decide on where filming will take place (NYC or Sydney), table reading of the script ( which had undergone many changes in screenwriters), etc... I understand that while he was filming his swan song LOGAN, sometimes Hugh had to do double-time and also work on SHOWMAN during some weekends ( such as screen-testing with the co-star candidates -- there were quite a few)... And after he completed LOGAN filming ( which must have been physically and mentally exhausting, maybe also emotionally-tiring), he had only the required break between movie projects... and he started rehearsing for his pet movie musical.
We must also remember that there were significant changes happening at the top level of FOX ( the people who approve projects and budgets and to some extent major casting and directorial assignments) -- Chairman/CEO Jim Gianopulos ( under whose watch the project was initially started, with his assistant Emma Watts) was let go almost unceremoniously and replaced by new studio chief Stacey Snider. That represented some corporate upheaval and that must have affected many film projects ( as it was likely project reviews were undertaken by the new management team, although Emma Watts was eventually promoted to second in command to Stacey Snider)... So projects like SHOWMAN underwent a major review, especially given that it is from a relatively risky genre.
Now we have arrived at the final phases of post-production. I am not overly worried about the film -- if it is meant to be a crowd-pleaser, why ever not?? It was just the movie press that kept tagging the movie as an Oscar contender ( sometimes I scoff at how the movie press has actually created a sub-industry called Oscar/awards prediction and even call themselves Oscarologists! That is what GoldDerby is all about! Ha!... so you can imagine why they practically kill themselves in trying to come up with what they think will come close to actual winners *rolleyes*). The interest in Showman was also created given the reception to La La Land ( which of course benefited from the novelty of re-introducing old-fashioned musicals not derived from the theatre).
If SHOWMAN has always been meant to be a movie for all demos with a holiday appeal -- why ever not?? Okay -- when you think about probably the most popular musical ever ( including adjustment for inflation of box office figures if that is a measure)-- you probably would say it must be THE SOUND OF MUSIC!! It was truly loved!! It's funny that not many people will think of it as the movie that won the Oscar in 1965! That was only the icing on the cake -- what we remember was the music, the characters, the overall tone of joy tinged with a little drama!! That opening scene on top of the mountain must be one of the most iconic opening scenes in movie history. And we really loved it!
I have a feeling that THE GREATEST SHOWMAN might get the same resonance with audiences -- that is a joyful and tuneful movie that we will fondly remember! Just like THE SOUND OF MUSIC!
I don't think Hugh will be disappointed if this is how the movie will turn out to be, Oscar glory-speaking! He wanted to bring music and drama in a film project and it seems he will soon be accomplishing this, even if it took him 8 years to do it!
Bravo, Hugh Jackman, for staying the course!
Jo
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Post by jo on Oct 15, 2017 9:47:36 GMT -5
Hughmanity -- There is no rating at Rotten Tomatoes yet for THE GREATEST SHOWMAN as it has not been shown to critics and no reviews have been made. The number we see is the interest in seeing the movie from those who care to post on the poll. From the early 80% rating as the measure of interest in seeing the movie, that has now climbed to 87% in a short time. We'll have to wait for the publicity machine to rev up before awareness of the movie becomes universal. Starting with the second trailer... which hopefully will come soon. Btw, The Sound of Music got a 57% rating at Rotten Tomatoes from TOP CRITICS although the overall rating was 86%. Yet, that did not prevent it from becoming a huge commercial and critical ( if the measure is Oscar approval) hit! To me, nothing can ever top the extreme disappointment that I felt re the reception to a Hugh Jackman movie than when I read the first review from the Venice Film Festival for THE FOUNTAIN -- the critic gave it 1 star out of 4 stars! I almost cried! Arghh... and it was such a beautiful concept and execution from Darren Aronosky and his performer actors! That was also one project that we followed the development over the course of its filming and the time prior to that... Ten years later, the movie is now being lauded as a cult classic! But the saving grace at the time of the release was the top praise for Hugh Jackman's impressive portrayal of the trifecta set of characters! Btw again -- you have to take the opinion of message board members from Broadway sites like ATC with a grain of salt  They are keen but opinionated theatre observers -- not filmmaking experts Besides, they based their 2- cents-worth on only a 2+minute- worth- of- trailer Jo |
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Post by carouselkathy on Oct 15, 2017 16:13:13 GMT -5
In many ways, the internet has ruined the magic of movies by making judgements before release dates. I had no idea that THE SOUND OF MUSIC had bad reviews, especially since it ran for several years at the Fox Wilshire in LA, and even longer at a theater in Long Beach, CA. I've lost count of the number of times I saw it. It was still playing by the time I got my driver's license, so I'm sure the viewings were many.
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Post by hughmanity on Oct 15, 2017 18:49:00 GMT -5
(Yes, I was referring to the interest rating on RT), but I do want to thank you, Jo, for taking the time to address my concerns. I appreciate and respect your depth of knowledge, and I always look forward to reading your comments on this board.  |
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Post by jo on Oct 15, 2017 19:47:36 GMT -5
Postscript --It's not as if THE GREATEST SHOWMAN was the only movie musical that Hugh Jackman attempted to be brought or brought back to the screen. Years back -- he worked towards a remake of CAROUSEL. SEED had arrived at the point that -- *A contemporized script was completed ( not sure, but maybe it addressed the issue of domestic violence, among others, for a more current cultural appeal). *The new script was sent to a director ( I have forgotten the name) to sound off if he would be interested in the project. *Hugh himself said that he filled Anne Hathaway's email facility with wooings for the project. *Hugh also sounded off Fox 2000 ( the Fox subsidiary that usually handles indies and smaller-budget movies) and he received a positive response. LOL - the clout of Wolverine *From my recollection, they were thinking of only a fairly small budget ( within the $ 10 million range then, if I am not mistaken). After all the efforts, nothing came off it  We had/have to be content with the unofficial ( bad audio) recording of the CAROUSEL concert at Carnegie Hall, which introduced Hugh Jackman to New York audiences in a live performance. And of course we were thrilled that he chose Billy's SOLILOQUY as a key musical number in his BACK TO BROADWAY/BROADWAY TO OZ shows. So, now that he has been able to swing it with another movie musical project ( for which we are now just awaiting the publicity train and the official release) it will be a very exciting time to see how his determined efforts have paid off! Jo
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Post by jo on Oct 16, 2017 5:10:04 GMT -5
At least someone pointed out on ATC that Hugh Jackman is still a strong contender for Best Actor ( citing GoldDerby and Awards Circuit) even if he said that Gary Oldman is the heavy favorite. That gave me a chance to say something about LOGAN ... I did point out that LOGAN was the first movie which FOX launched for an Oscar campaign, with the release of screeners to AMPAS/Guilds. Of course I cited the 93% rating from Rotten Tomatoes and that the movie was hailed as a major departure in theme and tone from the superhero genre. Of course I also mentioned that it was Hugh's farewell movie from FOX most prominent movie franchise, of which he has been the front man for 17 years. Jo |
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Post by jo on Oct 16, 2017 8:27:14 GMT -5
And this latest reply on ATC --
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Post by jo on Oct 16, 2017 9:23:01 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Oct 16, 2017 9:48:42 GMT -5
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Post by jo on Oct 16, 2017 21:09:33 GMT -5
Given the run of bad luck in terms of CRITICAL REVIEWS of the recent releases from FOX, is it likely that FOX itself will be openly dismissive of its own year-end Oscar contender hopes ??!! The worst it could/should have done is to keep quiet and hope for the best! www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_greatest_showman_2017Take a look at the left-hand side for ratings -- Kingsman (Taron, Colin, Tatum, Holly, etc) - 50% Mountain Between Us (Idris Elba and Kate Winslet) - 43% The S nowman ( Fassbender) - 24 % (early reviews only) All that are left would be Murder on the Orient Express, The Post, and THE GREATEST S HOWMAN for any futher Oscar hopes. Previously announced on its Oscar campaign slate are LOGAN and WAR OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. Jo |
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Post by harlequinade on Oct 17, 2017 6:53:57 GMT -5
I heard Murder on the Orient Express is awful, so that's one down |
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Post by jo on Oct 19, 2017 10:21:08 GMT -5
I came back to his site to find out if Jeff Wells has written anything further about his disappointment about THE GREATEST SHOWMAN . I didn't find any -- but I checked the updated version of his OSCAR Balloon section -- He has NOT taken out THE GREATEST SHOWMAN from his list of LIKELIEST BEST PICTUER CONTENDERS. hollywood-elsewhere.com/oscar-balloon/This is the latest version appearing on his site. What is unusual is that many forecasters, Jeff Wells included, are shying away from the superhero genre. Jeff Wells has written in a previous column that LOGAN ( with some reservations about the R-rated scenes) was his 3rd best-liked movie in 2017. But it deos not appear in any of his Oscar balloon mentions. |
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Post by harlequinade on Oct 19, 2017 10:35:04 GMT -5
That's the release date working against Logan. I have been following Best Actor race closely and it's extremely weak this year. Someone like Oldman and DDL is definitely getting nominated, the kid from Call Me By Your Name too but the rest is up in the air. In any case I think Hugh will at least grab GG nomination for TGS
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Post by jo on Oct 19, 2017 10:41:00 GMT -5
Jeff Wells has also written his latest OSCAR SPITBALL page ( separate from Oscar Balloon) -- and THE GREATEST SHOWMAN has the been pegged as having the 8th best chance to win BEST PICTURE ( it went down one rank from his last SPITBALL column) --  LOL -- THE GREATEST SHOWMAN is the only movie on his list which is identified with the lead actor and not the director! Personally, I think the real picture will shape up once the movies are screened presumably earlier for film critics ( and maybe the movie press) AND most importantly how strongly the major studios will position their bets in the campaign. It looks like that the major studios want to retake the lead for awards glory from the arthouse movies! For one, HW is now completely out of the picture and ALL previously associated with his past productions ( including some Oscar winners for acting honors) are trying to dissociate themselves from his name. For one, FOX is now in its first year under the leadership and stewardship of Chairman/CEO Stacey Snider and it is likely she would want to show excellent results ( Box office-wise and in terms of awards glory) for 2017. Jo |
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Post by harlequinade on Oct 19, 2017 10:54:02 GMT -5
He has Apes and not Logan there? Oh, come on! :P
I think number 11, 5 or 2 will be BP winner. In light of the biggest scandal in Hollywood perhaps ever they will want to give this to the movie that has a message. Dunkirk is amazing but so many people thought it wasn't emotional, which puzzled me, I was very moved
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Post by jo on Oct 19, 2017 11:12:02 GMT -5
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) for the soundtrack or at least the release of a few songs. We still have to hear Hugh sing! And see him dance!
They are keen but opinionated theatre observers -- not filmmaking experts 
